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Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

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Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#101

Post by willwade »

modeless wrote: post #83
willwade wrote: post #26

Some clarity for ppl. - Other techniques would likely work for this patient. Eyegaze technology is pretty readily available. He has proximity switches for driving his chair and lets not forget voice control. So.. what does BCIe offer significantly? I think this is the BIG problem BCI has. The gains are not enough for a lot of people compared to what the AT sector can already offer. Please remember this. This guy coul…

Eye tracking does not work nearly as well as people imagine. It cannot directly replace a mouse pointer the way you want it to. The accuracy and reliability are not good enough and never will be due to physical constraints. This system is likely already working better than an eye tracker would for cursor control, and it will certainly improve. Apple has done great stuff with eye tracking on Vision Pro, but it require…

I hear you. I literally cant use any commercial tracker because of a alternating strabismus and the midas touch effect is a nightmare. I'd argue Apple did that because its such a mess on regular OS where the primary input method isnt eye gaze. (They did that with iOS too - match the OS and UI to the primary access method)

I'm not sure I can believe this "This system is likely already working better than an eye tracker would for cursor control" - the training to use this stuff isnt just 'magic'. I do agree though with "and it will certainly improve" - yeah iterate.. iterate..

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#102

Post by willwade »

Firaxus wrote: post #71
willwade wrote: post #26

Some clarity for ppl. - Other techniques would likely work for this patient. Eyegaze technology is pretty readily available. He has proximity switches for driving his chair and lets not forget voice control. So.. what does BCIe offer significantly? I think this is the BIG problem BCI has. The gains are not enough for a lot of people compared to what the AT sector can already offer. Please remember this. This guy coul…

He notes these other forms of HCI in the video, and I think you’re really underselling the main point of this being ease of use. All of those methods are significantly degraded experiences compared to normal ways of interacting with a computer. The potential for a quadriplegic to interface with a computer at a higher ease of use compared to a human without disabilities is huge.

Sure. The problem is this video somewhat misses how that interaction actually works. You need a control technique of thinking to action. What that actually is and how you learn to use that is missing from the demos. Thats a tad misleading right now IMHO.. (NB: It could be intentional speech eg "Move x to y" or it could be intentional motor control "move my hand right and up" You would also need a stop command. Not sure.. )

But sure - "the potential" is the key thing in all this. Just the cost to benefit ratio is pretty dramatic right now.

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#103

Post by willwade »

mdeeks wrote: post #60
willwade wrote: post #26

Some clarity for ppl. - Other techniques would likely work for this patient. Eyegaze technology is pretty readily available. He has proximity switches for driving his chair and lets not forget voice control. So.. what does BCIe offer significantly? I think this is the BIG problem BCI has. The gains are not enough for a lot of people compared to what the AT sector can already offer. Please remember this. This guy coul…

I don't think the point for him was to simply find a way to control his mouse. He said at the end of the clip he specifically wanted to help out with Neuralink. He also said the surgery was easy and he was released a day later. He appears to just think about where the mouse should go and then be able to click and click-and-hold. Seems like multiple inputs which an eye tracker wouldn't do. Unless maybe its just config…

Theres a lot of patients who "want to help out" Eddie Chang's team in SF have one patient who moved right next to the hospital to equally do this.. (NB: they should be getting paid too by the way - although thats not clear)

Yeah - this is wireless. Better than some systems which have been, no joke, a box at the top of your head with a HDMI cable in it..

> He appears to just think about where the mouse should go and then be able to click and click-and-hold. Seems like multiple inputs which an eye tracker wouldn't do. Unless maybe its just configured to click when the cursor pauses on a spot?

This is really the key question. The dwell technique you note is what most eyetrackers do (although far better to use a binary technique - eg a blink - to select because of the midas touch effect). Its built into to Windows/MacOS and iOS now. I have a sneaky feeling the reason why its chess is you can encode the positions "X1 to Y2". You can then do a transformer model to decode intentional speech..

If that is the case - then if a person actually speaks whats the benefit right now for this indvidual? (yes - that he doesnt have to say it. BUT sub-vocal speech is already achievable without invasive surgery..)

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#104

Post by selfmodruntime »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #86
ofek wrote: post #23

This makes me very excited! I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy type 2 [1] and I have lost most of my physical capabilities save for 2-3 fingers and of course speech. Although I am now on Nusinersen [2] treatments I am still becoming weaker over time, albeit extremely slowly. It brings me comfort to know that such a fallback will eventually exist, should I need one. Note that specialists are saying that another promising…

[flagged]

Animal trials have always been used to further human medicine.

Google searches let us assume that anywhere from 12 to 50 monkeys died during Neuralink trials.

100 billion animals are eaten every year.

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#105

Post by willwade »

busymom0 wrote: post #34
willwade wrote: post #26

Some clarity for ppl. - Other techniques would likely work for this patient. Eyegaze technology is pretty readily available. He has proximity switches for driving his chair and lets not forget voice control. So.. what does BCIe offer significantly? I think this is the BIG problem BCI has. The gains are not enough for a lot of people compared to what the AT sector can already offer. Please remember this. This guy coul…

I think once this tech can be used to connect to a robot / exoskeleton, then it will be very useful for someone like him. Imagine him thinking that he wants an apple from the fridge in another room and the robot goes and grabs it for him.

Yeah I agree. In reality though - right now - I'd say you might be surprised to what people actually want and need. For example I could assess someone for say a curtain opener or door opener. I have fallen into the trap of assuming that someone would want this. In reality though its very few people who do. Why? Its totally overkill and pointless when 90% they are with someone who will just open the door anyway. (NB: This isnt Everyone - the ubiquity of home control systems on the regular commercial marketplace is changing this I think)

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#106

Post by ashildr »

ofek wrote: post #23

This makes me very excited! I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy type 2 [1] and I have lost most of my physical capabilities save for 2-3 fingers and of course speech. Although I am now on Nusinersen [2] treatments I am still becoming weaker over time, albeit extremely slowly. It brings me comfort to know that such a fallback will eventually exist, should I need one. Note that specialists are saying that another promising…

I‘ve been wondering if Apple‘s AR Headset would be a useful tool for people in similar situations. Did you have a chance to try it, yet?

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#107

Post by DoesntMatter22 »

alexilliamson wrote: post #94
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he deserves an awful lot of credit for funding such a pie in th sky idea and giving those researches a chance to even attempt it. In 1 month he's launched the largest rocket ever, done one of the first successful brain implants ever and released a pretty amazing version of FSD. No other billionaires have done even 1 of those things. Even if he was a buffoon he deserves credit foe the audacity.

I was sort of with you until the FSD

The new FSD is fantastic. It's not perfect but 12.3 is a massive upgrade over 11.x. Very natural. The end is within sight, really.

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#109

Post by consumer451 »

maximus-decimus wrote: post #67
sambroner wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. Seems like a likely candidate for an S curve in tech development. i.e. next 15 years of VR are improvements to camera, display, and tracking technology. Following 15 years are brain implants.

I would be excited if I didn't fear them putting ads directly into my brain.

Please read my bio. BCIs are the final frontier of privacy. Let's not mess this up like we did internet tracking.

Re: Neuralink patient controls games by thinking during interview

#110

Post by notso411 »

emsy wrote: post #22

As soon as you can stimulate tactile impressions it's over. You can put on your VR Headset and be in a completely different world. Eventually the interface for eyes and ears will improve, but tactility would be a huge step towards being in a completely virtual world.

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