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macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

appleinsider.com

101–110 of 271 posts

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#101
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's easy to guess The good kernel engineers are working on iPhone or Vision Pro, not on MacOS

Don't they all use the same kernel?

No, because naturally it is different kind of requirements and space is at a price as well.

Technically it is kind of the same, but with different set of configured features.

Already a bit oldie,

"Mac OS X and iOS Internals: To the Apple's Core"

https://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-iOS-Internals-Apples/dp/111805...

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#102
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the kind of half-baked change a junior dev might come up with, but lord knows how it made it through code review and into a release.

hypothetical excerpt from the commit message: code review: self-reviewed test plan: this change is so obvious no tests are needed

I wish you were joking…

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#103
post #28

Been saying this for as long as I’ve been using macOS: it is not a developer friendly OS and am close to the conclusion that this reputation is a psy-op. Yeah it’s pretty, it mostly works when the box is first turned on and the hardware is unmatched but macOS itself is actually subpar. QA seems second tier, things you’d except from other OSes like, I don’t know, using a third party second display are just bad experie…

The third party display thing is dead on.

I have a $2000 AUD LG monitor that Mac OS just occasionally decides to overdrive (or something) and cause instant but temporary burn in. I'm not the only one - you can find others on Reddit.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#104
post #95
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that only works if you stick to old majors. At this point Sonoma is out for almost 6 months, so even if you waited a few months to upgrade to Sonoma you are out of luck now. You are either stuck on 14.3 without security fixes or you upgrade to 14.4.

What's the difference? Wait a month (or whatever) before upgrading to the next major or minor release. My work laptop is stuck on 14.3 for a few weeks until they fix this issue. So what? Actual security risk is practically zero. Whereas if I update to 14.4 today the risk is that I can't do my job.

The difference, if I read gp correctly, is that an older major release would still get new security updates when necessary, but if you already are on the current major, which had been out without this problem for quite a while, you will only see security updates bundled with minor feature changes like the one that introduced the JVM incompatibility.

Not really an Apple-specific problem, it could hit anyone who supports multiple versions without opening that can of worms of allowing completely free mix&match of fixes and updates.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#105
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's easy to guess The good kernel engineers are working on iPhone or Vision Pro, not on MacOS

Don't they all use the same kernel?

Mostly, but JIT is not allowed in the App Store apps, so probably this change didn't broke anything over there.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#106
post #104
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference? Wait a month (or whatever) before upgrading to the next major or minor release. My work laptop is stuck on 14.3 for a few weeks until they fix this issue. So what? Actual security risk is practically zero. Whereas if I update to 14.4 today the risk is that I can't do my job.

The difference, if I read gp correctly, is that an older major release would still get new security updates when necessary, but if you already are on the current major, which had been out without this problem for quite a while, you will only see security updates bundled with minor feature changes like the one that introduced the JVM incompatibility. Not really an Apple-specific problem, it could hit anyone who suppor…

No difference to me. It's an OS update. My policy is to wait before installing any OS update on my work Mac, whether its major or minor. Just wait at least a month. So far I have avoided all of these bullshit issues over several years of updates.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#107
post #28

Been saying this for as long as I’ve been using macOS: it is not a developer friendly OS and am close to the conclusion that this reputation is a psy-op. Yeah it’s pretty, it mostly works when the box is first turned on and the hardware is unmatched but macOS itself is actually subpar. QA seems second tier, things you’d except from other OSes like, I don’t know, using a third party second display are just bad experie…

The reputation was well earned when Linux on the Desktop wasn’t as easy or friendly as it is today and was severely lacking good quality GUI applications. Windows was a virus laden mess and was not useful for running Linux apps. And besides the flaws of the other OS’es, OS X had some of the nicest window management features (Expose from the Snow Leopard is still my favorite window switcher), was a UNIX and had a thri…

My reason to use Macs is for the modern version of NeXTSTEP and iDevices, not really for the overpriced hardware.

However at home I have always been a Windows/Amiga/UNIX head, with Linux being the cheaper path to that UNIX experience, had Microsoft not messed up the POSIX layer, probably I would never have bothered.

For some time I even tried to acquire one of those nice Toshiba laptops using Solaris that Sun used to have.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#108
post #28

Been saying this for as long as I’ve been using macOS: it is not a developer friendly OS and am close to the conclusion that this reputation is a psy-op. Yeah it’s pretty, it mostly works when the box is first turned on and the hardware is unmatched but macOS itself is actually subpar. QA seems second tier, things you’d except from other OSes like, I don’t know, using a third party second display are just bad experie…

Not saying you're wrong, but what else is there that just works and is usable instantly when you open the lid?

While my work Windows laptop might be faster, it's certainly not the one I'm going to pick in a pinch or when I want to travel with just one laptop.

The best mobile configuration I know right now is a Macbook Pro + Parallels. Even with all of its deficiencies.

Are there any good Linux laptops with similar experience as Macbooks when it comes to power management and time from lid opening to usable state?

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#109
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 10 (can’t speak for 11…I haven’t upgraded) with a lot of the animations etc turned off is a far superior developer experience than macOS. macOS is just so clunky. It tried to be so smooth all the time but just ends up being annoying.

I just set up a windows box for some development last week. Spent 2-3 hours per day on it (on work not setup). So far I haven't managed to turn off the firewall scare popups, I did manage to remove that crap in the task bar that pops up the weather and selected news covering half the screen if you hover in the wrong place, I may or may not have turned off the OneDrive upsell, and I also got a full screen message to u…

Let's not pretend that Mac OS is immune to a bit of the old upsell too. Core OS that features only work when paired with iPad/iPhone. iCloud is actively difficult not to use. The sidebar with the Apple shares and news apps.

Re: macOS Sonoma 14.4 might break Java on your machine

#110
post #41
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a pretty normal way to do things. Optimization for JITting, let the CPU hardware to do the heavy lifting instead of putting conditional jumps everywhere. It's useful for other things as well. I've used SIGSEGV to emulate hardware interrupts. Normal execution wouldn't trap and there's no need for tests + branches (= normally no slowdown), but when an interrupt occurs a specific often accessed page is m…

Which other JITs behave like this? AFAIK neither V8 nor Spidermonkey nor LuaJIT rely on segfaults as a normal part of their operation?

Android ART uses this mode of operation too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with relying on SIGSEGV and other synchronous signals in this manner and POSIX should make it easier and safer instead of trying to pretend signals are bad and useless.
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