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Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

stanford.edu

101–110 of 169 posts

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#101
post #61
post #8

That is why people who attended Rudolf Steiner's Waldorf school perform so well in College. It is a school that DOES NOT give grades to students. And the teach write feed back to the students based on whole aspects of their development including social interaction. When college get ride of tests and grade will be a good start.

I like the no-grades aspect of it, but I'm pretty turned off by the way they pressure parents to avoid having computers and recorded media around children - and that they even delay learning how to read - and that the prohibition is for religious reasons that they don't usually discuss in public.

interesting, I know they explore much on spirituality, but I didn't realize wardorf school is religiously related.

I do think reading and technology are not important in education. We people retain information far better through audio vs reading. See research from University of Regensburg http://www.linguatec.de/products/tts/references/uni_regensbu...

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#102
post #57

We've created a winner-take-all society where the cost of losing is a soul-sucking micro-managed job and the constant worry that getting sick could mean medical bills that can never be paid off. In this society you do not get points for asking big questions. You get points for getting the right degrees to serve the right signaling functions to get the right jobs which offer luxuries like health insurance and the flex…

It's not like countries with universal health-care are so different in this respect. People are under a bit less stress but most still aim for normal "sheep"-like jobs and lives.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#104
post #53

I went to school, then dropped out, and then went back. I finished my BS last week with a 4.0 GPA. I dropped out because I wasn't learning anything, and it was an incredibly time consuming grind that wasn't any fun. I dropped out to start a company, and probably learned more every few weeks doing that, than it would be possible to learn in years of classes. There isn't a guide and every problem requires actual though…

My question: how does a piece of paper that thousands of others hold distinguish you? It doesn't. Take those four years and $120k-$240k you would spend on an "education" and get a real education - build a company. Building a legit company (successful or not) is worth 1000 times what that piece of paper is. Your mind will be tempered in the fires of reality.

As I've said many times, a degree is just your ticket to being some else's bitch.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#105
post #53

I went to school, then dropped out, and then went back. I finished my BS last week with a 4.0 GPA. I dropped out because I wasn't learning anything, and it was an incredibly time consuming grind that wasn't any fun. I dropped out to start a company, and probably learned more every few weeks doing that, than it would be possible to learn in years of classes. There isn't a guide and every problem requires actual though…

My question: how does a piece of paper that thousands of others hold distinguish you? It doesn't. Take those four years and $120k-$240k you would spend on an "education" and get a real education - build a company. Building a legit company (successful or not) is worth 1000 times what that piece of paper is. Your mind will be tempered in the fires of reality. As I've said many times, a degree is just your ticket to bei…

Not having a degree is like not dressing well for an interview. It's superficial, but people are judged for it. Largely because there are more, percentage-wise, unqualified people without degrees than with degrees.

A person may decide that it's not worth investing 4 years and lots of money for the sake of a degree, but a degree has advantages that should not be ignored.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#106
post #53

I went to school, then dropped out, and then went back. I finished my BS last week with a 4.0 GPA. I dropped out because I wasn't learning anything, and it was an incredibly time consuming grind that wasn't any fun. I dropped out to start a company, and probably learned more every few weeks doing that, than it would be possible to learn in years of classes. There isn't a guide and every problem requires actual though…

My question: how does a piece of paper that thousands of others hold distinguish you? It doesn't. Take those four years and $120k-$240k you would spend on an "education" and get a real education - build a company. Building a legit company (successful or not) is worth 1000 times what that piece of paper is. Your mind will be tempered in the fires of reality. As I've said many times, a degree is just your ticket to bei…

That depends on what you want to do with your life, doesn't it? Obviously, running a company should teach you how to run a company. It won't teach you how to be a chemist, or an electrical engineer, or a teacher, or a composer, etc.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#107
post #53

I went to school, then dropped out, and then went back. I finished my BS last week with a 4.0 GPA. I dropped out because I wasn't learning anything, and it was an incredibly time consuming grind that wasn't any fun. I dropped out to start a company, and probably learned more every few weeks doing that, than it would be possible to learn in years of classes. There isn't a guide and every problem requires actual though…

"Getting an A is as easy as doing everything, it doesn't require any real intelligence or understanding. This is really what college is all about."

You don't have a representative experience. Try going to a top 5 school in science/ engineering/ math.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#108
post #78
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My major was computer science. It's still just a list of work. The math largely isn't as difficult as it is poorly explained and tedious. It's possible to obtain an intuitive understanding of most topics, and when you do, it's practically trivial to derive the underlying equations.

I agree that once you obtain an intuitive understanding of any topic, what once seemed incomprehensible is suddenly completely trivial. It's just getting to that stage that requires a lot of work. I studied computer science also and spent a ton of hours staring at equations. I figured it out eventually, and maybe I'm just slower than you, but it wasn't nearly as simple as you made it sound. Getting back to the point:…

There is also a lot of variability in CS programs. Mine was way heavy on math, and light on the computer side. EX: DifEq is useful, but IMO it's odd to require that of CS students while not requiring a functional language.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#109
post #53

I went to school, then dropped out, and then went back. I finished my BS last week with a 4.0 GPA. I dropped out because I wasn't learning anything, and it was an incredibly time consuming grind that wasn't any fun. I dropped out to start a company, and probably learned more every few weeks doing that, than it would be possible to learn in years of classes. There isn't a guide and every problem requires actual though…

So: you went to college determined to find a path through it that would let you "get straight A's" and "graduate as quickly as possible", and then treated each course as a list of stuff to "check off"... and you're upset that you didn't get very much out of college?

Well, duh.

Every year I get a number of students whose entire motivation to be in my class is that they want to get the piece of paper. This sort of purely extrinsic motivation does not tend to make them very good students (although occasionally I have one that does well and gets an A, good for them). I'm always a little disappointed in them, because the class is more fun for both of us if they're more internally motivated; sometimes I can manage to get them actually interested, and then they perk up and are happier (and often do better), but sometimes they've just decided that they're not going to like college, and you know what? I can't force them to.

So, I guess they "win" that argument. But, it's an expensive argument to win; and it's kind of a shame, really.

As an aside, I also wanted to respond to this line:

> Getting an A is as easy as doing everything

Yes and no. In my class, and in those of my colleagues who have not overinflated their grades, As are gotten by the students who impress us with their outstanding work. Part of that is, of course, making sure they do all the pieces (don't skip anything, make sure it all works, check your work, etc), and the smart-but-sloppy students who skip things tend to be my A- and B+ students rather than my A students. But the students whose primary priority is checking everything off on a checklist, just "doing everything", rather than "getting it" or "making a cool thing" or whatever, almost invariably don't succeed in getting the A. It sounds like your background meant that you'd already learned a lot of the material independently, so your situation is different, but I think comments like the above are rather misleading for the bulk of students, who are learning this material on their first time around.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#110
post #75
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your subjects were that easy, it sounds like you weren't challenging yourself enough. Quantitative degrees like math or physics weed out a lot of people who simply can't complete the material. For most soft subjects, I agree that it's only a matter of putting in time, but those honestly aren't difficult or interesting (as you've noted). If I'm looking at resumes and I see a person with straight As in a hard major,…

My major was computer science. It's still just a list of work. The math largely isn't as difficult as it is poorly explained and tedious. It's possible to obtain an intuitive understanding of most topics, and when you do, it's practically trivial to derive the underlying equations.

There are a great many areas of computer science that are incredibly difficult. There are a lot of long standing open problems that some of the smartest people on earth cannot solve. Further, a university gives you some of the best access to resources around: lots of domain expertise in various areas and access to nearly every worthy journal article in the world.

It astonishes me that you could come out with the attitude that everything is easy and college doesn't teach you anything useful.

Computer Science is not about learning to program C, or Java. If your college gave you that impression then it most certainly failed you.

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