FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say • Hacker News Board

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#101

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 1:41 AM UTC

bhouston wrote: post #83

ShamelessC wrote: post #75

Based on how he was acting during trial, I assume he still thinks he's somehow getting out of this.

I am so confused by his weird persona. Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart, but doesn't that generally mean an acceptance of reality? He seems so disconnected from reality most of the time, like he is mentally ill almost.

> Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart

I think we want this to be true. We want a meritocracy based on intelligence. But I’m very skeptical it’s true.

I think he could be a total moron combined with some money, some connections, luck, and the lack of the things that hold many of us back such as self doubt, fear, morals and ethics, and obeyance to the law.

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#102

Post by tptacek » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 1:43 AM UTC

TillE wrote: post #100

tptacek wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not.

Sentencing takes so long because the judge is allowed to consider basically anything, and there's a whole data-gathering process to facilitate this. It's just not likely to be a major factor.

Right, it's like an entire second trial. But the guidelines give a pretty strong indication where the sentence is going to land. Either way: the nominal losses are what is most likely to control; in particular, if you steal a bunch of money, bet it all at the track, and make enough to pay back your victims, you're not getting credit.

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#103

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 1:44 AM UTC

The Government's Sentencing Memorandum:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59...

Exhibits:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.59...

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#104

Post by AznHisoka » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 1:47 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #101

bhouston wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused by his weird persona. Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart, but doesn't that generally mean an acceptance of reality? He seems so disconnected from reality most of the time, like he is mentally ill almost.

> Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart I think we want this to be true. We want a meritocracy based on intelligence. But I’m very skeptical it’s true. I think he could be a total moron combined with some money, some connections, luck, and the lack of the things that hold many of us back such as self doubt, fear, morals and ethics, and obeyanc…

Yeah, I think I agree. Many many examples of people who made it or almost made it, without being smart or lucky (WeWork CEO) or in the right place at the right time or able to deceive people (ie Elizabeth Holmes)

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#105

Post by sidewndr46 » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 1:48 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #101

bhouston wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused by his weird persona. Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart, but doesn't that generally mean an acceptance of reality? He seems so disconnected from reality most of the time, like he is mentally ill almost.

> Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart I think we want this to be true. We want a meritocracy based on intelligence. But I’m very skeptical it’s true. I think he could be a total moron combined with some money, some connections, luck, and the lack of the things that hold many of us back such as self doubt, fear, morals and ethics, and obeyanc…

This is much closer to reality.

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#106

Post by sidewndr46 » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 1:49 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #93

charonn0 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His crimes are closer to those of Bernie Madoff than, say, Jamie Dimon. Madoff was sentenced to 150 years.

My understanding is that sbf's investors might even come out ahead. Sure that would be a consideration

At the current rate the lawyers are burning cash while handling FTX's bankruptcy, it seems like the customers of FTX may owe them money.

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#107

Post by xeornet » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 1:51 AM UTC

kylecazar wrote: post #97

xeornet wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal and right are also not the same thing. I hope laws changed as a result.

Definitely not the same thing, agreed. My only point being this is why the 'big-wigs' aren't in jail.

Agreed, not sure why you’re being downvoted. As if it’s your fault they weren’t jailed.

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#108

Post by danielscrubs » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 2:03 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #101

bhouston wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused by his weird persona. Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart, but doesn't that generally mean an acceptance of reality? He seems so disconnected from reality most of the time, like he is mentally ill almost.

> Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart I think we want this to be true. We want a meritocracy based on intelligence. But I’m very skeptical it’s true. I think he could be a total moron combined with some money, some connections, luck, and the lack of the things that hold many of us back such as self doubt, fear, morals and ethics, and obeyanc…

In my two decades of working Ive only seen people get rich by two things: risk taking and connections. These are real friends and not some media piece.

Risk taking can be bitcoin, deception or leveraged property ownership. Without morals and self doubt you get a way bigger field in the risk taking arena.

Rarely have I seen knowledge as a main factor, because renting knowledge-workers is easy and cheap.

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#109

Post by sidewndr46 » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 2:03 AM UTC

ShamelessC wrote: post #75

Based on how he was acting during trial, I assume he still thinks he's somehow getting out of this.

Based on the letter's they've sent his parents also think he is going to walk away from this

Re: FTX's Sam Bankman-Fried Should Serve 40 to 50 Years in Prison, Prosecutors Say

#110

Post by throw18376 » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 2:18 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #101

bhouston wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused by his weird persona. Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart, but doesn't that generally mean an acceptance of reality? He seems so disconnected from reality most of the time, like he is mentally ill almost.

> Obviously he has to be smart, you don't make a multi-billion dollar company/fraud without being incredibly smart I think we want this to be true. We want a meritocracy based on intelligence. But I’m very skeptical it’s true. I think he could be a total moron combined with some money, some connections, luck, and the lack of the things that hold many of us back such as self doubt, fear, morals and ethics, and obeyanc…

you can't make it through an MIT physics degree while being a total moron. Same with the Jane Street interview process. he was at least a smart guy and probably a good trader.

now in some sense you can still be very smart but "a total moron" meaning you make stupid and bad decisions and ruin your life and cause all kinds of disasters.

my read on him is he was sharp, and able to succeed for a while as long as someone else put up guardrails that would compensate for his terrible judgment and executive functioning -- which you get in school or working for a large firm. when he struck out on his own, he lost all that, but his reputation + connections + stupid risk appetite took him far until he blew up.