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mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

bessstillman.substack.com

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Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#101

Post by lamontcg »

munksbeer wrote: post #72
3q34D5b7pR5H8k6 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It feels to me that the virology and vaccination field is mind-numbingly complicated, so most so called hacker objections are from people not even remotely qualified to object, since they only think they understand. Study the field for a decade, then object. Those are the objections we should pay attention to.

I'd be happy to debate with anyone who has even watched an online virology course:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGhmZX2NKiNktEViriylQ...

Just spend 25 hours watching videos so we have a common language about how viruses and the immune system works. Doesn't need to take a decade to bump up a person's knowledge above the level of online blogs.

Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#102

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

azangru wrote: post #9

> RNA is fragile. So, like in the COVID mRNA vaccines, these instructions can be delivered in a protective fatty bubble called a “lipid nanoparticle.” Think of it like a balloon made of fatty acids, with the instructions nestled inside. Once injected, these lipid nanoparticles take the mRNA instructions into cells, where the fatty bubble degrades, mRNA instructions are released, and the cell’s machinery start to prod…

"What makes an mRNA vaccine more appealing than a protein-based one?"

For one, mRNA is easier to produce/manufacture than protein.

Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#103

Post by sandspar »

azangru wrote: post #9

> RNA is fragile. So, like in the COVID mRNA vaccines, these instructions can be delivered in a protective fatty bubble called a “lipid nanoparticle.” Think of it like a balloon made of fatty acids, with the instructions nestled inside. Once injected, these lipid nanoparticles take the mRNA instructions into cells, where the fatty bubble degrades, mRNA instructions are released, and the cell’s machinery start to prod…

It seems like our hot pace of trendy advances has let non-fiction writers flirt with writing in the science fiction genre. If you see some articles as hard science fiction with a "this is a true story" framing device then they make more sense.

Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#104

Post by georgeplusplus »

millzlane wrote: post #91
georgeplusplus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> But mRNA vaccine skepticism has to be the stupidest "skepticism" and falsehoods I have ever seen of a new technology. To be fair the media and government are more to blame. By attacking and trying to silence the skeptics during COVID only proved to make what you said worse. You wont make a very attractive product by shaming, deriding, or forcing someone into taking said product that deals with their health.

I don't see how you can convince a skeptic who doesn't have the same knowledge as say a educated professional working on vaccines. Either the skeptic needs the same level of education or an explanation from someone they trust with the level of education needed. You can't convince the skeptics with a sound byte. If they truly believe the government has it out for the entire country. I don't know where you would even b…

I think the flaw here is you don't form your success or failure of adoption based on if you can convince the skeptics.

Thinking everyone can be brought to your side with reason is not a logical assumption. Some people no matter how strong an argument will not want to do something no matter the level of evidence or reasoning. Be it their faith or stubbornness and we need to be ok with that.

jailing them, excluding them from society, or forcing them from their jobs to provide to their famalies is how you get people to side with skeptics and does the opposite effect

Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#105

Post by otherme123 »

amluto wrote: post #85
otherme123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coronavirus were thought to be non-vaccinable, even worse than the flu. They are behind a lot of winter colds, and they are a great pain in veterinary. Veterinaries are the ones that were pessimistic before mRna vaccines, because they were trying vaccines for decades to no avail. Measless and chickenpox are very stable, and even the body gains inmunity for life just being exposed to it in the childhood. All of them a…

> Coronavirus were thought to be non-vaccinable, even worse than the flu. Citation needed. I think the biggest reason there’s no common cold vaccine is that there are too many common cold varieties, often not even related to each other. Dengue was thought to be a difficult target, and are some non-mRNA vaccines looking pretty good in trials right now.

You require citations, and start your assertions with "I think". Seems unfair. In fact, we have some vaccines for some "common colds" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory_syncytial_virus_va...), but none for coronavirus common colds.

I refered to veterinary as a source of pesimism. There are a number of veterinary serious problems related to coronavirus. I'm going to just refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus#Infection_in_anima.... Labs are trying to get vaccinations for those infections for years if not decades, to no avail. We are talking of millions, if not billions, in farm loses, so not a minor issue.

When all the SARS-CoV-2 event was raging, people from veterinary were very pesimistic, because they knew coronaviruses change so rapidly that no (traditional) vaccine holds for long enough. Luckily, mRNA vaccines shorten the window between variant detection and roll-out. They are trying genetically altered viruses that include multiple versions of the S protein, to induce the immunity, so it's not like they are working with ancient technology or no resources.

You also recognize that "dengue was thought to be a difficult target", and indeed it was. You don't need [citation] to assert that. The fact that we were trying to vaccinate against Dengue for almost a century is [citation] enough. The same holds true for coronavirus, specially in veterinary.

Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#106

Post by thehappypm »

Izkata wrote: post #93
amluto wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were wildly effective for a few months after being given. We don’t know how well they would continue to work in the absence of mutation. But it’s worse than that: the revised vaccines appear to be nowhere near as effective even against strains closely related to those which they target. As a somewhat plausible mechanism, repeated doses have been shown to induce IgG4 production, which non-mRNA vaccines don’t seem…

> repeated doses have been shown to induce IgG4 production I have a strong suspicion that this finding explains some if not all of the weird results with these vaccines. * The 95% effective was a measurement solely of sickness, not infection. At the time this was reported, we had no idea if this meant it prevented infection/improved the immune response (good) or suppressed the immune response so we didn't develop sym…

Is it possible that long Covid developed in people who prior to vaccination, would have simply died of Covid?

The larger point is that there are many many confounding factors including Survivor bias

Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#109

Post by ljsprague »

epistasis wrote: post #53
azangru wrote: post #9

> RNA is fragile. So, like in the COVID mRNA vaccines, these instructions can be delivered in a protective fatty bubble called a “lipid nanoparticle.” Think of it like a balloon made of fatty acids, with the instructions nestled inside. Once injected, these lipid nanoparticles take the mRNA instructions into cells, where the fatty bubble degrades, mRNA instructions are released, and the cell’s machinery start to prod…

> What makes an mRNA vaccine more appealing than a protein-based one? Having worked on the same targeting mechanisms for protein based vaccines meant to be personalized cancer therapies, and having followed the mRNA vaccines with envy, the benefits are absolutely massive. But there's not a single alternative. In comparison to each type: Short peptides injection are worse because: minimal immune stimulation, less of a…

You didn't answer his/her questions.

Re: mRNA vaccines: let's eradicate herpes, cure cancer, and be sick a whole lot less

#110

Post by ljsprague »

cgh wrote: post #4

This is about as succinct a summary as it gets re mRNA's potential: "To create an mRNA cancer vaccine, a patient’s tumor is biopsied to identify unique target mutations —> mRNA correlating to mutations is synthesized and injected into the patient —> the patient’s cells create the targeted protein —> the creation of foreign proteins stimulates the immune system and teaches it how to recognize the target protein —> The…

>the creation of foreign proteins

Those proteins are already there though, right?

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