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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I am a country at war with the United States. Do I have the right to kill every American journalist? Also, it is not clear what "working in Hamas" means since they formed the government of the Gaza strip, so people "working in Hamas" would include all public officials, civil servants, etc. Does Israel have the right to kill all the sanitation workers of the Gaza strip since they also "work in Hamas"?

> Suppose I am a country at war with the United States. Do I have the right to kill every American journalist? This something people say from 5000 miles from the conflict. "Rules" go out the window when you're the one holding the gun and being shot at. The people on the ground are just trying to survive.

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#102
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different war structure.

The onus of protecting journalists (and medical workers) falls on the military regardless of how difficult the war they’re trying to prosecute is. How many journalists did the US kill in 20 years of OEF/OIF?

I'm not condoning the death of anyone.

I am however pointing out the very significant differences between what the original comment is referring to and what is happening and what might be driving the largest (if true) difference in numbers.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#103
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I am a country at war with the United States. Do I have the right to kill every American journalist? Also, it is not clear what "working in Hamas" means since they formed the government of the Gaza strip, so people "working in Hamas" would include all public officials, civil servants, etc. Does Israel have the right to kill all the sanitation workers of the Gaza strip since they also "work in Hamas"?

The rules of war are completely out the door when one side routinely pretends to be civilian, which is a war crime. Which is not to say it’s just to go committing whichever crimes you want, but discussing legal rights is largely pointless because it is immediately a lawless war.

No, that's not how war crimes work.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#104
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-02-04/ty-article-opinio...

I don’t know why so many people defend the Israel genocide. Everyone I meet offline including Israel born Jews are accusing their own government of genocide.

30k dead (from Hamas source) including at least 10k terrorists over a population of 2.2M is nowhere close to a genocide. Only hamas supporters are claiming it's a genocide.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#105
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I am a country at war with the United States. Do I have the right to kill every American journalist? Also, it is not clear what "working in Hamas" means since they formed the government of the Gaza strip, so people "working in Hamas" would include all public officials, civil servants, etc. Does Israel have the right to kill all the sanitation workers of the Gaza strip since they also "work in Hamas"?

The rules of war are completely out the door when one side routinely pretends to be civilian, which is a war crime. Which is not to say it’s just to go committing whichever crimes you want, but discussing legal rights is largely pointless because it is immediately a lawless war.

It is not the first war in which the "good guys" as posthumously determined by us, were disguising themselves as civilians, out of necessity. Multiple resistance groups in WWII to draw inspiration from. I don't know of anyone who would look at the SS/Wehrmacht retaliatory punishment of the nearby civilian population and think, "oh well, that's totally justified due to those pesky resistance groups".

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#106
post #26

Besides the statistics I advise anyone to also look at the reports of how the individual deaths happened, I've seen them very little discussed in western media. There's often enough evidence to show an extremely likely deliberate killing (usually with weapons that Hamas doesn't have). Journalists have been killed outside of the Gaza strip as well. Just make your own informed opinion. Furthermore, there have been so f…

> Furthermore, there have been so few western journalists on the ground because Israel (and Egypt) prevented them from entering, I think this prohibition alone should be considered unacceptable in the 21 century I think the prohibition is wrong, but what do you think "real journalists" can offer people that isn't already being spread around? We are inundated with stories from this conflict; what is CNN going to add t…

The Hamas may(?) have less leverage over foreign reporters. For local reporters there's a history of Hamas threatening and using violence against the reporters and their families to get the kind of reporting they want.

I agree with the observation that many of those outlets are mouthpieces for their respective government though.

Here are a few references to keep in mind when thinking about journalists working in Gaza (or you can think about Russia, Iran, North Korea, maybe China as being similar):

https://www.amnesty.ca/human-rights-news/gaza-hamas-must-end...

"The Gaza Strip is a particularly inhospitable territory for press freedom. Hamas and the Islamic Jihad harass and obstruct journalists suspected of collaborating with Israel," - https://rsf.org/en/country/palestine

"Gaza: Journalist facing prison term for exposing corruption in Hamas-controlled ministry" - https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/02/gaza-journali...

"The Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and Gaza are arresting, abusing, and criminally charging journalists and activists who express peaceful criticism of the authorities. ... Both Palestinian governments, operating independently, have apparently arrived at similar methods of harassment, intimidation and physical abuse of anyone who dares criticize them. ... The media freedom group MADA documented 192 incidents in 2015 in which Palestinian authorities infringed on journalists’ right to free expression through summoning and interrogation, arrests, physical assault, detention, and, in Gaza, forbidding journalists from reporting on certain issues or stories. That was a 68 percent increase over 2014. The pattern of abuse that MADA reported, including beatings, torture, warnings to stop criticizing the government, and seizing passwords to search social media accounts, is consistent with the cases Human Rights Watch documented." - https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/08/30/palestine-crackdown-jour...

Isra Al-Mudalla, the head of foreign relations in Hamas’s Information Ministry said, "The security agencies would go and have a chat with these people. They would give them some time to change their message, one way or another." ... “Some of the journalists who entered the Gaza Strip were under security surveillance. Even under these difficult circumstances, we managed to reach them, and tell them that what they were doing was anything but professional journalism and that it was immoral.” - https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-admits-intimidating-fore... https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-government-spokesperson-we-de...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#107
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different war structure.

The onus of protecting journalists (and medical workers) falls on the military regardless of how difficult the war they’re trying to prosecute is. How many journalists did the US kill in 20 years of OEF/OIF?

Thirteen for OIF: https://cpj.org/reports/2006/01/js-killed-by-us-13sept05/

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#108
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different war structure.

The onus of protecting journalists (and medical workers) falls on the military regardless of how difficult the war they’re trying to prosecute is. How many journalists did the US kill in 20 years of OEF/OIF?

> The onus of protecting journalists (and medical workers) falls on the military regardless of how difficult the war they’re trying to prosecute is.

No it doesn't?

Just searched the International Criminal Court's English document on war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity for 'journalist' and found no results.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/Publications/Ele...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#110
post #80

[flagged]

Well maybe people believe that Genocide = Bad and the rest is just logic

Genocide:The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group.

Explain how the country that does roof-knocks[1], phone calls[2], and has literally driven its own people out of Gaza[3] in an attempt for peace is attempting to exterminate Palestinians. Learn what words mean before using them.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/world/middleeast/gaza-inv... [3] https://www.britannica.com/event/Israels-disengagement-from-...

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