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HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

arstechnica.com

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Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#101

Post by dathinab »

reaperducer wrote: post #78
raarts wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a recently popular thing to use a tv as monitor.

It’s a recently popular thing to use a tv as monitor. Only if you you define recently popular as "More than yesterday, but still a rounding error."

if yesterday is since around 5+ years

because for people mainly playing games but not being over obsessed with having the most expensive fastest hardware ever using a TV as screen has been popular for a very long time, like even when I was in 12grade it was already popular and that was well over 10 years ago

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#102

Post by geraldhh »

spintin wrote: post #76
fps_doug wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I always liked about HDMI is that it's basically backwards compatible all the way to DVI, just using passive adapters. I think that's the reason why HDMI dominates on laptops, where you're expected to move around and use projectors, which could then be very old and only have DVI inputs, and it "just works" with a plain old adapter. You could even go the other way round from a DVI output to a modern HDMI projecto…

I recently discovered you cannot pass 75Hz over DVI -> HDMI -> DVI! For some reason the bandwidth is too low? So for 60Hz there is interop. but for 75Hz you need a thick DVI cable.

jep, bw limit of the digital channel.

had that same issue with a 1920x1200@60 display on old hdmi connection and with a 1920x1080@60 tv on dvi-hdmi.

lowering the refreshrate slightly (59.9 Hz) made it work

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#103

Post by javier_e06 »

I was like: Is Google in the HDMI Board? No, neither Microsoft.

https://hdmiforum.org/about/hdmi-forum-board-directors/

I see people from Apple Panasonic Sony Nvidia Samsung etc.

Hardware companies. Maybe you have to buy your way in the club.

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#104

Post by geraldhh »

emersion wrote: post #57

A possible workaround for users is to use an active HDMI adapter, e.g. a USB-C dock or DisplayPort → HDMI converter.

are you implying that DP-HDMI cables have some active components in it that modifies the signal?

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#105

Post by tomohawk »

indymike wrote: post #81
tomohawk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand on that, AT&T had a regulated monopoly. You were not allowed to attach non AT&T devices to their network, and they had the only network (and no one else could set one up by law). You did not own a phone, but leased it on a monthly basis. When the telephone answering machine was invented (not by AT&T) you could not legally attach it. The plus of this arrangement was that AT&T made devices that would last for…

> costs were not surprising Costs were mind boggling and surprising. I got in huge trouble when I was in elementary school because I called my best friend who lived 1 mile away. It could cost more to call someone who lived in a different LATA (in my case, the other LATA was one mile away) than it did to call a different time zone. As I recall a call 1 mile away was billed at 23¢ per minute and a call to Portland, Ore…

Absolutely right - I'd forgotten about that. The fun of regulation driven services.

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#106

Post by extraduder_ire »

poizan42 wrote: post #42
ysofunny wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm pretty sure apple would and could sue you if you do that. but it really depends on how much attention you get gotta keep an eye on the nintendo emulator lawsuit.... the war on general purpose computation carries on

Saying "compatible with " is if anything one of the best established examples of nominative use. Like PC-compatibles which IBM had no way of stopping. Apple could try to sue, but the case would get dismissed immediately.

Any time I've seen that on actual packaging, it does come along with " is a registered trademark of ". Though usually those same boxes use official published logos from .

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#107

Post by dathinab »

Dalewyn wrote: post #66
redox99 wrote: post #62

Luckily with mid and high end monitors, DisplayPort is the standard. I don't understand why TVs don't come with even a single DisplayPort though. Maybe they are paid off by the HDMI forum?

Most people don't connect a computer to their TV, assuming they even have a computer at all. And assuming they do, they all have HDMI anyway. As for everything else most people would connect to their TV, they all have HDMI and precisely none have DisplayPort. Given that, supporting DisplayPort is an unnecessary expenditure on bill of materials and labor for TV manufacturers.

Except that most laptops today have only DP, and basically all USB-C=>HDMI adapters are USB-C => DP alt mode => HDMI adapters.

And outside of gaming consoles it is becoming increasingly more rare to connect anything to the TV outside of the luxury segment (as even build in sound often is better then any external sound up to a price region where the lower luxury segment starts, so buying a slightly better TV without an external sound system is often better then a cheaper system and external sound).

And many of the "killer features" of HDMI (like network over HDMI) are semi-dead.

And DP is royalty free, HDMI isn't. So gaming consoles probably would love going DP only.

So as far as I can tell the only reason physical HDMI interfaces are still everywhere is network effect of them always having been everywhere.

I.e. if there is a huge disruption HDMI might go from everywhere to dying off.

And USB-C is perfectly suited for such disruption (long term).

I mean everything from server centers to high speed interconnects of consumer PCs is currently moving to various forms of "PCIe internally". USB4 and NVMe just being two examples. So it might just be a matter of time until it reaches the console/TV space and then USB-C with USB4+ or Thunderbolt would be the way to go.

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#108

Post by organsnyder »

ysofunny wrote: post #40
echoangle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure that the term being a trademark doesnt stop me from mentioning it when describing compatibility. Do you think apple could sue me if i release a program and say "This software is compatible with macOS"? As long as I am not impersonating them, using the Logo etc., they probably can not stop me.

i'm pretty sure apple would and could sue you if you do that. but it really depends on how much attention you get gotta keep an eye on the nintendo emulator lawsuit.... the war on general purpose computation carries on

Apple actually explicitly states that you may do this: https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/guidelines...

Though even if they didn't they wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on if they sued.

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#109

Post by oynqr »

spintin wrote: post #76
fps_doug wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I always liked about HDMI is that it's basically backwards compatible all the way to DVI, just using passive adapters. I think that's the reason why HDMI dominates on laptops, where you're expected to move around and use projectors, which could then be very old and only have DVI inputs, and it "just works" with a plain old adapter. You could even go the other way round from a DVI output to a modern HDMI projecto…

I recently discovered you cannot pass 75Hz over DVI -> HDMI -> DVI! For some reason the bandwidth is too low? So for 60Hz there is interop. but for 75Hz you need a thick DVI cable.

HDMI can only carry single link DVI as far as I recall.

Re: HDMI Forum does not allow an open source implementation of the HDMI 2.1 spec

#110

Post by ghusbands »

spintin wrote: post #76
fps_doug wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I always liked about HDMI is that it's basically backwards compatible all the way to DVI, just using passive adapters. I think that's the reason why HDMI dominates on laptops, where you're expected to move around and use projectors, which could then be very old and only have DVI inputs, and it "just works" with a plain old adapter. You could even go the other way round from a DVI output to a modern HDMI projecto…

I recently discovered you cannot pass 75Hz over DVI -> HDMI -> DVI! For some reason the bandwidth is too low? So for 60Hz there is interop. but for 75Hz you need a thick DVI cable.

HDMI currently supports up to 144Hz. Even HDMI 1.4 (2009) could reach 120Hz.

However, compatibility is hit and miss in general. You may have had luck replacing one or more cables or adapters, but switching to displayport is likely to get the best results, anyway.

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