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Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

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Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#101

Post by w0m »

deegles wrote: post #77
floatrock wrote: post #36

Here's the real punchline: > Experts told the Vancouver Sun that Air Canada may have succeeded in avoiding liability in Moffatt's case if its chatbot had warned customers that the information that the chatbot provided may not be accurate. Here's a glimpse into our Kafka-esque AI-powered future: every corporate lawyer is now making sure any customer service request will be gated by a chatbot containing a disclaimer li…

much like Tesla's Autopilot which cannot be responsible for an accident because you're supposed to be hands-on-wheel and alert at all times while using it.

That issue is media mostly optics I think. Once you sit down with it, it's simply a better cruise control.

Now, if you are talking about 'Full Self Driving' - then yea, there's a waiver and a point there.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#102

Post by nimbius »

floatrock wrote: post #36

Here's the real punchline: > Experts told the Vancouver Sun that Air Canada may have succeeded in avoiding liability in Moffatt's case if its chatbot had warned customers that the information that the chatbot provided may not be accurate. Here's a glimpse into our Kafka-esque AI-powered future: every corporate lawyer is now making sure any customer service request will be gated by a chatbot containing a disclaimer li…

choosing to accept an unnecessary quantifiable liability and wrapping it in a disclaimer as part of a critical business process is not a recipe for sustained growth or profit.

AC and other corporations would do well to put the brakes on this instead. identify ways to transfer risk (AI Insurance for example) or avoid risk (scrap the AI bot until the risk is lowered demonstrably.)

savvy advertisers would jump on this opportunity to show just how much AC cares about the customer and eat the loss quietly before it ever went to trial.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#103

Post by dataflow »

grotorea wrote: post #88
dataflow wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually sounds like an interesting case to me because the details make a huge legal difference in my mind. (But IANAL, maybe I'm entirely off base here.) E.g., did they tell you the shipping date after you placed the order, or before? If it was afterward, then it can't have invalidated the contract... you agreed to it without knowing when it would ship. If they told you before, then was it before they knew your…

Why would they tell the date after placing? Every online shopping I ever used shows the shipping date together with shipping price and shipping options if there are any.

If they're going to ship immediately, then they can know before you place the order. If there's another entity involved (third party seller, backorder, etc.) then they might not be able to know when it will be shipped with much certainty.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#104

Post by Cpoll »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #60

The real desire here is to get it to promise a lifetime of free service. edit: arguing that the chatbot is a separate legal entity is a wild claim. It would imply to me that air canada could sue the ai company for damages if it makes bad promises; not that air canada is excused from paying the customer.

> promise a lifetime of free service.

That might be too wishful thinking. The tribunal would take into account damages, and whether it was reasonable to believe that you're entitled to free service.

In this case, the chatbot promised a ~$800 discount, and the tribunal awarded ~$800. But I doubt they'd make the same decision again, or deem the lifetime service enforceable/un-cancellable.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#105

Post by passwordoops »

dheera wrote: post #86
floatrock wrote: post #36

Here's the real punchline: > Experts told the Vancouver Sun that Air Canada may have succeeded in avoiding liability in Moffatt's case if its chatbot had warned customers that the information that the chatbot provided may not be accurate. Here's a glimpse into our Kafka-esque AI-powered future: every corporate lawyer is now making sure any customer service request will be gated by a chatbot containing a disclaimer li…

OR they could just honor what the chatbot said and forget the legal battle. The chatbot's error cost them what, $200? And it probably replaced at $100000/year employee?

You think front-line support staff account for $100k in compensation?

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#106

Post by dtjb »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #28
danpalmer wrote: post #2

I'm glad to see that cases are starting to be decided about the liability of using AI generated content. This is something the general public should not need to second-guess.

Honestly LLMs aren’t ready for customer service. If I’m talking to a company I need to have a high degree of accuracy. LLMs are less accurate than trained humans.

Few front-line agents have deep knowledge about their company's products or services. They trace their finger through some branches on a flowchart then dictate from a knowledgebase.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#108

Post by spywaregorilla »

bluGill wrote: post #92
spywaregorilla wrote: post #60

The real desire here is to get it to promise a lifetime of free service. edit: arguing that the chatbot is a separate legal entity is a wild claim. It would imply to me that air canada could sue the ai company for damages if it makes bad promises; not that air canada is excused from paying the customer.

If I were the agent who made that promise what would they do to me? Fire me - then fire the chatbot. Put me through training - then train the chatbot. Stand behind me and do what I say - then stand behind their chatbot. I bet they already have policies in place for this - while how they apply to AI may be different, they shouldn't let this slide.

The key term here is "apparent authority". You don't need to be granted authority for each and every thing you do, but if you start grossly doing things you were not supposed to do, that's mostly just fraud on your end.

The common example in textbooks is someone continuing to do business as an employee after having been fired. They can still make valid deals with other entities due to apparent authority if they're not clearly made out to be separated.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#109

Post by saintfire »

dheera wrote: post #86
floatrock wrote: post #36

Here's the real punchline: > Experts told the Vancouver Sun that Air Canada may have succeeded in avoiding liability in Moffatt's case if its chatbot had warned customers that the information that the chatbot provided may not be accurate. Here's a glimpse into our Kafka-esque AI-powered future: every corporate lawyer is now making sure any customer service request will be gated by a chatbot containing a disclaimer li…

OR they could just honor what the chatbot said and forget the legal battle. The chatbot's error cost them what, $200? And it probably replaced at $100000/year employee?

I would assume the average salary of a customer support worker is dramatically lower than that. The point is still valid regardless.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#110

Post by grotorea »

manicennui wrote: post #94
quartz wrote: post #4

> "Air Canada argues it cannot be held liable for information provided by one of its agents, servants, or representatives—including a chatbot," Rivers wrote. "It does not explain why it believes that is the case" or "why the webpage titled 'Bereavement travel' was inherently more trustworthy than its chatbot." This is very reasonable-- AI or not, companies can't expect consumers to know which parts of their digital e…

This line of argument is crazy and infuriating. "Air Canada essentially argued, 'the chatbot is a separate legal entity that is responsible for its own actions,' a court order said." Do they expect people to sue the chatbot? Are they also implying that people have to sue individual agents if they cause a problem?

> 27. Air Canada argues it cannot be held liable for information provided by one of its agents, servants, or representatives – including a chatbot. It does not explain why it believes that is the case. In effect, Air Canada suggests the chatbot is a separate legal entity that is responsible for its own actions. This is a remarkable submission. While a chatbot has an interactive component, it is still just a part of Air Canada’s website. It should be obvious to Air Canada that it is responsible for all the information on its website. It makes no difference whether the information comes from a static page or a chatbot. > https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bccrt/doc/2024/2024bccrt149/202...

Real legal comedy. Since this was in small claims court maybe it was an amateur on Air Canada's side?

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