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The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

wsj.com

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Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#101

Post by lotsofpulp »

quatrefoil wrote: post #22

I mean, it's cool to pin it on manufacturers trying to increase margins, or on "planned obsolescence" - but a lot of it is our doing. We're willingly enabling it. There are manufacturers that make simple and serviceable appliances; for example, most Frigidaire fridges don't have cool-looking displays, wifi connectivity, and other bells and whistles. But how many Frigidaire products are sold every year, compared to LG…

> for example, most Frigidaire fridges don't have cool-looking displays, wifi connectivity, and other bells and whistles. But how many Frigidaire products are sold every year, compared to LG or Samsung? These brands are not only loaded to the brim with "smart" features, but many technicians refuse to work on them due to poor design and poor availability of parts. So when they break after 2-5 years, they are destined for the dump.

I quickly searched HomeDepot.com and see at least 10 LG and 10 Samsung refrigerators without “bells and whistles”.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#102

Post by badpun »

magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Here in Norway, for large appliances there's a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc. It covers anything that's not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it's been exposed to non-normal usage. The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your m…

I wonder if it translates into shops not selling the most unreliable crap, or selling it at a markup, compared to other countries. Or do they just amortize the cost across entire product gauntlet.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#103

Post by badpun »

NackerHughes wrote: post #68
ptek wrote: post #37

The annoying thing is that you see arcticles in paper and clips on tv that you have to upgrade all your old equipment from the 60s so you can "save energy". Who wants some iFridge/iOven when the equipment made in the 60s was built to survive two zombies apocalypse and one nuclear war and won't connect to the internet for a firmware update. Also the CIA can't hack your fridge so you get salmonella from your chicken be…

I am very curious as to whether the money you save in energy bills from today’s more ‘energy-efficient’ appliances outdoes the money spent in replacing the things so much more frequently. Older appliances may cost more to run but it’s possible they pay themselves off by virtue of not having to re-buy them every few years. Speculation, of course. I wonder if anyone’s done the math on this.

Is anyone really having to re-buy appliances every few years? I bought all my appliances back in 2016 (dishwasher, washing machine, induction plate, owen with microwave, fridge, hot water boiler) and none of it broke yet. They're all from different brands, most were cheapest stuff available.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#104

Post by dist-epoch »

alkonaut wrote: post #94

This has a very simple reason: the cost of manufacturing has shrunk and the cost of repair has not. Because repairs require expensive people and manufacturing can take place with automation or cheap labor. The worst offenders aren't large appliances, it's the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln't just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that…

There is this person which repairs advanced electronics on youtube - motherboards, video cards, usb sticks, ...

At $70 per hour it doesn't take long for repair to become more expensive than a new item.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#105

Post by reaperman »

distances wrote: post #81
jellicle wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there exists a company that makes appliances that are very expensive and that last a long time, a company with a real reputation for quality, then it is extremely profitable for that company to be purchased by a hedge fund that cuts quality by 90%, raises prices by 10%, and just rides that train into the ground over the next 20 years.

Miele has that reputation. According to Wikipedia, it "has always been a family-owned and family-run company", which would explain why it hasn't suffered that fate.

I love my Miele vacuum but they're not like the old-school vacuum companies. They too succumbed to modern business practices. They discontinued all their upright models a couple years ago - just 1 year after I bought it. I needed a replacement belt for the carpet brush, but they:

- No longer mannufactured that incredibly commonly replaced part -- probably the most frequently replaced part on an upright vacuum.

- No longer sold any leftover stock of that part

- Did not have a recommendation for a 3rd-party replacement

- Did not have any access to any service manuals for the device I bought 1 year earlier to tell me what dimensions the original belt was.

Additionally, quite a few years ago Miele changed their canister vacuum bags to force customers to replace them more frequently, most recently in 2017[0] but also tried some shenanigans in 2009[1]. Furthermore, the air prefilter quality went from "amazing" to "horrible" during COVID.

I still recommend Miele vacuums because everything else is much much worse. But I can no longer give them an unconditional endorsement, and I worry for their future too. SEBO may be another brand to consider[2] if you find yourself looking at Miele's.

0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsAgQvNkvS8

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deC6hTFMrKI

2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjV3lhD7y1w

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#106

Post by magicalhippo »

switch007 wrote: post #65
magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Here in Norway, for large appliances there's a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc. It covers anything that's not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it's been exposed to non-normal usage. The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your m…

Just to be clear, within the entire 5 year period a defect is assumed to be a manufacturing fault? If not, isn’t it easy for the seller to claim damage/wear and tear etc? We have 6 years in the UK but only in the first 6 months is a defect assumed to be a manufacturing defect, which is naturally the period with your strongest rights and when it’s easy to get a repair or replacement. After that, you need to argue quit…

Yeah, if it's not due to wear items (break pads on a bike say) and you've only used it normally, it's assumed to be a manufacturing fault and it's on the shop to prove it's not.

For example if a mobile phone stops working they can't just take a look and say "oh water damage", they have to open it up and show the water stains or similar.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#107

Post by pbmonster »

brigandish wrote: post #91
karlshea wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Sonicare that rattled the head off within a half year of buying it. I took it apart and it was due to a screw with no thread lock being the only thing holding everything together. On a vibrating part. Put some thread lock on it and it’s been totally fine since, but that seems like it’s intentionally planned to fail. Good job, Philips.

I had the same problem. Sent it back to them and they fixed it, but perhaps I should have a look inside. They did imply I'd dropped it when I'd done nothing of the sort.

They are actually fairly repairable once you manage to open the watertight enclosure, which requires patience and a fair bit of violence. Switching out the cell is really easy once the battery starts dying.

The different Sonicares also share many of their parts, makes replacing broken pieces possible if you ever do drop one.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#109

Post by johannes1234321 »

alkonaut wrote: post #94

This has a very simple reason: the cost of manufacturing has shrunk and the cost of repair has not. Because repairs require expensive people and manufacturing can take place with automation or cheap labor. The worst offenders aren't large appliances, it's the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln't just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that…

> When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan.

An approach for this is to switch from owning to renting.

Say you rent your washing machine for 1000 runs.

Consequence then is that you have predictable cost per run and since the vendor is responsible for maintenance and deposition, thus they have an interest in making the machine repairable and recyclable.

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