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Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

federalregister.gov

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Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#101

Post by snowwrestler »

akoumjian wrote: post #8

I find it more interesting that this publication of names is part of HIPPA. I really wish each piece of legislation was restricted to small units of scope.

This is a consequence of attempting to make every piece of new legislation revenue neutral. If the main purpose of the bill will cost money, Congress will look elsewhere to find new revenue. That is how a bill about patient data portability ends up having tax implications for expats.

It would certainly be within the rules for Congress to just pass spending and revenue bills separately, but it would be politically difficult.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#102

Post by run4yourlives »

cletus wrote: post #90

EDIT: 48 upvotes in an hour and this submission just jumped from top 10 to second page? WTF? Honestly, the US is the most invasive government in the "free" world I've had the misfortune to encounter. I can't think of another developed nation that is quite so overbearing when it comes to foreign income. US citizens who haven't been in the US for 40 years and work in other countries STILL need to report their income to…

Every country has requirements of its citizens. A lot force you to serve in the Armed Forces. The US doesn't do that.

While I agree that the US isn't as welcoming as it once was and has always had an onerous tax code, for foreigners it is still a huge benefit to work and do business there.

The funny thing is that Citizenship in the US has been essentially devalued by non-citizen working categories that have been developed in order to make the economy function. Unlike Europe or Canada, the US as a country doesn't really provide anything substantial to its citizens that make moving from a green card to a full citizen really worthwhile unless you care that much about voting.

Green Cards (or equivalent legal status) are gold though. Save the passports for EU countries or CAN/AUS. :-)

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#103

Post by jebblue »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #94
biomene wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is communism dangerous? I fail to see any inherent danger in a form of society that distributes its wealth evenly across its citizens.

The pursuit of communism resulted in the tragic deaths of over 100 million innocents during the 20th century. More than were killed by Nazism, Facism, and Japanese Imperialism combined. And that is merely the darkest portion of the shadow that communism has cast on human civilization, the full extent of suffering and loss is on a scale that makes the Black Death look like a walk in the park.

Of interest to those who are down voting you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_communism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#105

Post by jakeonthemove »

biomene wrote: post #79
InclinedPlane wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idealogically pure idea of stateless citizens working in harmony of their own free accord is a fantasy that doesn't mesh with reality and just as dangerous as any Marxist Communist fantasy. In the right here and right now states are far from perfect, and we are in the middle of a period where lots of forces are pushing for greater consolidation of power in the hands of the state. But the benefit of having governm…

In what way is communism dangerous? I fail to see any inherent danger in a form of society that distributes its wealth evenly across its citizens.

What run4yourlives said.

To put it simply - when all the wealth is equally spread, there is no incentive for anyone to do anything. If everyone is paid equally and has the same benefits, there's no point in working harder or smarter - you just do the bare minimum and be done with it.

Let's take a capitalist factory: workers are paid $5 per assembled iPad. Those who want more money can assemble 100 iPads and make $500 in a day's work. Most are happy with $100 per day, so they'll assemble only 20 iPads (let's say that's the minimum amount required).

Now a communist, state-operated factory: workers are paid $100 per day because everyone is equal. Those who want to make $500... can't, even if they assemble 1000 iPads. So they just assemble the bare minimum of 20 and are done with it, secretly cursing the government for this injustice/inequality (how ironic is that?).

The overall production level drops significantly unless the state raises the minimum amount of iPads made to 100 per day. Obviously, the people who are happy with $100 per day are now pissed off, either because they don't want or simply can't work that hard.

The only ones benefiting from communism are those who make the laws and control the factories/country.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#106

Post by [deleted] »

brd wrote: post #68
mahmud wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be a U.S. citizen but don't live there. That is the best option of them all, and one I took.

What? This is most certainly not the best option. As a U.S. citizen you are required to pay taxes on income earned worldwide and from my understanding you can only deduct up to ~95k in 2012. From what I've read, being a US citizen and working abroad is expensive and one of the main motivations for people to renounce their US citizenship.

[deleted]

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#107

Post by jacaranda »

brd wrote: post #68
mahmud wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be a U.S. citizen but don't live there. That is the best option of them all, and one I took.

What? This is most certainly not the best option. As a U.S. citizen you are required to pay taxes on income earned worldwide and from my understanding you can only deduct up to ~95k in 2012. From what I've read, being a US citizen and working abroad is expensive and one of the main motivations for people to renounce their US citizenship.

Not necessarily true. if the US and the country have a tax treaty, you can offset the taxes you paid the host country. This credit is limited to the amount of US tax liability reported on Form 1040. Also the US has generous foreign income exclusion exemption ($92900) if you live outside the country for a whole calendar year or as a bonafide resident and earn that income from US based sources

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#108

Post by refurb »

culturestate wrote: post #89
ios84dev wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you still have to pay taxes on worldwide income right?

The tax system for overseas income is complicated , especially if you hold foreign assets (bank accounts or corporate interest), but the short version is that any income earned as an employee up to ~$95,000 can be excluded. It's called the foreign earned income exclusion.

Don't forget that if you live in a country that has a tax treaty with the US, any taxes paid to your home gov't counts towards any taxes you would pay to the US.

So if you live in a higher tax jurisdiction (i.e. the majority of the countries in the world), your US tax bill ends up being $0. However, you still have the hassle of filing your US tax return each year.

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#109

Post by waffle_ss »

mahmud wrote: post #29
jseliger wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but if you're in a country that's going to hell (Russia invades Georgia, Rwanda in 1994) and you're a U.S. citizen, you can be evacuated. In addition, if you're captured in the United States and labeled a "terrorist," you're less likely to be tortured and held in "black" facilities if you're a U.S. citizen. Perhaps not an optimal reason, but it still exists.

The U.S. embassy has evacuated my family and we're still paying for it. It's not free. We could have hired a private militia and escaped to safety for 5% of what we paid the state department.

I'm kind of glad to hear that it isn't free. U.S. taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize the risks that some take to travel to dangerous areas, even if it's an aid worker (most recently, like [this guy][1]).

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/world/asia/kidnapped-ameri...

Re: Derek Sivers Renounces his US Citizenship

#110

Post by jakeonthemove »

cletus wrote: post #90

EDIT: 48 upvotes in an hour and this submission just jumped from top 10 to second page? WTF? Honestly, the US is the most invasive government in the "free" world I've had the misfortune to encounter. I can't think of another developed nation that is quite so overbearing when it comes to foreign income. US citizens who haven't been in the US for 40 years and work in other countries STILL need to report their income to…

The law in this case is unjust. Those who don't like it (practically the majority of people) can open a separate company in Hong Kong and keep their foreign money untaxed. Or they can just not disclose the money they make.

Yes, it's illegal - selling drinks was also illegal during Prohibition - that didn't mean it was right.

The US actually reminds me of the relationship between the British Empire and the East India Company - the organization was so powerful that the actual government didn't have as much control over it as they wanted. It's the same with the US gov and its citizens (including corporations/businesses).

I don't know where the country is going, though. Other countries (especially in the EU) are now very close, equal or better than the US when it comes to business and living conditions, so there's really no reason to "switch sides" now.

With a British and Australian passports, you don't even need to think about a US citizenship - it is indeed useless, however if you're from one of the less developed countries , it's still worth it.

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