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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#101

Post by benguild »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

The “low usage” comment is going to be more ammo against Apple unfortunately. The whole reason they are low usage on PWAs is because of a lack of investment from Apple and a lack of parity, yet for the longest time Apple has played both sides by saying PWAs are a viable alternative to the App Store, all while channeling people to App Store for actual app downloads and not providing similar marketing or anything for PWAs

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#102

Post by rimunroe »

Elidrake42 wrote: post #77
veeti wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's literally what it says when you really read into it? They acknowledge that 1) Safari already has all the integrations required to support PWA securely and that 2) they can't be bothered to provide the same API's for third party browsers because it's not "practical". They built their PWA support in an anticompetitive manner assuming App Store & WebKit would be a monopoly forever, and now as a result the…

This is why I purchase iOS devices - ultimately their closed garden provides a smaller attack surface, clearly evidenced by the comparative (to Android) cost of exploits on the black market. I cannot see this as anticompetitive. If you want open, you have that choice in Android.

This is exactly my feeling too. I don't want the platform to open up more. I left Android because I wanted to make fewer decisions about my device, and to just think about it less in general.

Also, Safari is a non-Chromium-based (though still related) browser which developers are forced to support because it's the only thing allowed on iPhones. Most users aren't going to install Firefox on their iPhone, they're going to install Chrome, which is just going to make Chromium's market dominance worse.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#103

Post by bee_rider »

candiodari wrote: post #43
crazygringo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting that. I'm no iOS expert but it actually sounds like a pretty reasonable explanation. It's at least good to hear Apple's side here, and more knowledgeable commenters here can weigh in as to whether it really does seem genuine.

Sure it's reasonable ... because of course all these browsers don't have a security model and just allow web apps to do whatever they want. This is essentially saying no-one can build a secure browser.

Nobody can build a secure browser.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#104

Post by sigmar »

npunt wrote: post #85
sigmar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh, I thought the summary in techcrunch was much easier to read and concise. >Browsers also could install web apps on the system without a user’s awareness and consent. Couldn't this be entirely solved with an OS permission-like prompt "are you sure you want [progressive web app name] added to home screen?"

You don't want random processes firing off permissions prompts, you want them to remain meaningful to users on a platform else they'll get prompt fatigue. Think of all the prompts users see and just press 'ok' to.

Heard. But we're going to entirely eliminate all PWAs because there might be an additional prompt added? Seems excessive/specious to me.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#105

Post by cqqxo4zV46cp »

zer00eyz wrote: post #24
secondcoming wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> malicious web apps could read data from other web apps and recapture their permissions to gain access to a user’s camera, microphone or location without a user’s consent. How is this even possible? It's shocking that these APIs even exist for any browser to use.

>> How is this even possible? It's shocking that these APIs even exist for any browser to use. https://www.theverge.com/24054329/microsoft-edge-automatic-c... Ask MS, they already did it.

iOS and Windows’ security models are not remotely comparable. I can’t imagine that you’d be making such intellectually lazy comparisons if it wasn’t in the context of some perceived holy war.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#106

Post by spaceribs »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #61
cma wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the plain browser already can request camera permissions, in a bad security situation a site that didn't request it still receives it from the browser's system level request. This is just Apple wanting to avoid people being able to develop a platform on top of their platform without paying a tax.

That’s not the point though because WebKit is already secured by Apple but if you have multiple blink related apps like Microsoft edge or brave or Firefox apple will have to audit those too and be on the hook if something breaks and then Apple will have to take the blame over a security oversight they aren’t responsible for.

That assumes that Apple would be blamed for Edge/Brave/Firefox's security oversight.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#107

Post by WirelessGigabit »

SllX wrote: post #16
deminature wrote: post #6

In combination with the 'Core Technology Fee' that financially cripples any developer that tries to release a popular app outside the official app store, this is pathetic behavior. Hopefully the EU smacks them down for this temper tantrum at being forced to adhere to the DMA. They are trying to flex their market power and should be reminded they operate within a system of laws that doesn't bend for anyone, regardless…

I’m going to be level with you: there is nothing so great about PWAs that they’re worth mandating or protecting by law in any jurisdiction and the EU doesn’t owe it to you to try. Web developers like them. That’s it, and their PWA advocacy completely disregards what a privacy and security nightmare they can be without proper safeguards, because this little device I carry around in my pocket is 1) always with me and 2…

There is little difference on iOS between a PWA and a website which has a WebKit view and hosts a website.

The only reason PWAs were interesting on iOS was to get an app on iOS, while feeling relatively native, without paying Apple.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#108

Post by summerlight »

M4v3R wrote: post #79
summerlight wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we trust Apple for security in that context? Apple also provides all those functionalities via their proprietary API, which is not even audit-able. If Apple really believes in that argument, they should disable their own API as well.

You have to trust someone if you're using a computing device connected to the Internet. The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, and then (supposedly) you can not trust anyone else. To many that's a very strong proposition.

> The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple,

This seems to be over-generalization? Users are using Apple devices because those are good products, not because they want to delegate every single trust problem to the Apple ecosystem. That might be a great proposition for people like you, but there is a significant number of people who consider it a compromise rather than a value.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#109

Post by [deleted] »

sigmar wrote: post #17
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

tbh, I thought the summary in techcrunch was much easier to read and concise. >Browsers also could install web apps on the system without a user’s awareness and consent. Couldn't this be entirely solved with an OS permission-like prompt "are you sure you want [progressive web app name] added to home screen?"

[deleted]

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#110

Post by madeofpalk »

sigmar wrote: post #17
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

tbh, I thought the summary in techcrunch was much easier to read and concise. >Browsers also could install web apps on the system without a user’s awareness and consent. Couldn't this be entirely solved with an OS permission-like prompt "are you sure you want [progressive web app name] added to home screen?"

I guess that's why they say that "would require building an entirely new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS and was not practical to undertake given the other demands of the DMA and the very low user adoption of Home Screen web apps"
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