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The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

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Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve done all the “lifestyle” stuff as well. We’re not jealous. Kids are an order of magnitude more rewarding.

And here’s the secret: when the kids are a bit older, they can participate in your lifestyle: travel, skiing, instruments, etc.

Funny how the OP just complained about the social pressure and then people like you can't refrain from adding on top of it.

I have kids, I love them, I love parts of what having kids is about, and I hate other parts. If for some reason I had to hit rewind, I would probably choose it without having kids with the information I gained over the years.

And I totally understand people not wanting kids.

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#102

If everyone was anti-natalist, civilization would collapse, and there would be no work or no life. Surely some logical people can see it's the wrong approach, unless you despise humans in general and want them gone? We're the only species that can create computing or venture into outer space. Anyways, I have one child and hoping for a second. He has been a total joy for me and my wife since he was born.

Reading the rest of this thread, it seems that the anti-anti-natalists (to which I gravitate more closely) are misrepresenting the anti-natalists' view and that they don't actually expect everyone to be anti-natalist?

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#103

There seems to be a colossal misunderstanding in the first line. > successful, meaningful careers, and they just didn't see how they could juggle those jobs and the demands of parenthood. That's a false dilemma. Meaning does not come from a bare "career". It comes from how that "career" relates to others. Not everyone can have kids, and many of us find ourselves alone. "Kids" could equally be replaced by charity work…

It’s also not meaningful if that career coerces you to give up your outside family life (by imposing a huge penalty for having kids) so you can keep working your desk job, report to a boss, and have your 3 weeks of vacation a year.

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#104
post #44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is what any of us make it. The antinatalist position is fundamentally fatalistic. It’s a total negation of the one redeeming feature of the universe: anything could happen. I respect not having kids. The idea that you’re inherently better off not having kids is nonsense.

It's weird how a whole bunch of parents jump into threads like these to tell us all about how totally awesome having kids is. I love my son, but it's also easily one of the hardest things I've ever done and will continue to be so for the next 18+ years. I wouldn't recommend having children to anyone: it's a singularity, and there's also no undoing it. You need to be very sure it's what you want. It will be expensive,…

Having kids is the hardest thing anyone can ever do — I am thinking of counterpoints while writing, but none comes to mind. However, I recommend having children.

It is, contrary to some commenters, not a selfish thing to do, but a completely selfless act. You can see it for yourself when you watch the children around you: The pure joy of being alive! The full range of emotions! The good, the bad and the ugly…

You could argue that the children are thrown into the world and are now stuck with it, and you rather would prefer nonexistence to existence. If you can answer the question, is life worth living, positively, then you can argue, that existence is better than nonexistence and consequently being thrown into this world is better than to pass on the experience. It would, however, be selfish to keep this experience all to yourself and not allow potential offsprings to take part in this experience.

> You need to be very sure it's what you want. It will be expensive, it will limit what you can do in all sorts of ways, because it is relentless in a way which exposure to it as an aunt or uncle or friend simply won't communicate adequately

This is right! Having kids is total; It will dominate your life. Every second of your day for at least 4 to 5 years. If you are not willing or able to endure, then you should not have kids. And again: You cannot fathom what it means to have someone who is so dependent on you and the life and future depends on you. No, not even the clingy partner you had.

The hardship is soon forgotten — this is why the uncles and aunts and friends — don't communicate it adequately. These corny moments are real: Memories that will stick with you forever, even the bad parts, that somehow and with time get twisted into fond memories. (My son was crying every night for 8 months when he was falling asleep. I carried him on my arm until he was so exhausted that he slept. I sang songs for him for hours. Then he would sleep from 11 pm to 4 am. So at 4 I went to the living room with him, and we tried to catch some sleep on the couch. It got better after thees 8 months, but what a ride — now I like to think back and miss these nights when he slept in my arm).

You might be in these first years, or I am having a short respite, but it gets easier after the first years. But you don't have kids for yourself, but for your kids.

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#106
post #44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is what any of us make it. The antinatalist position is fundamentally fatalistic. It’s a total negation of the one redeeming feature of the universe: anything could happen. I respect not having kids. The idea that you’re inherently better off not having kids is nonsense.

It's weird how a whole bunch of parents jump into threads like these to tell us all about how totally awesome having kids is. I love my son, but it's also easily one of the hardest things I've ever done and will continue to be so for the next 18+ years. I wouldn't recommend having children to anyone: it's a singularity, and there's also no undoing it. You need to be very sure it's what you want. It will be expensive,…

> it will limit what you can do in all sorts of ways

You are literally adding N + 1 complexity to the universe. There is a whole world of possibility opened through having children.

What you see as reduced options is actually a series of choices you decided you’d want to have to make. And good parents choose the options that payoff in the long term.

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#107

I don't have nor want/have any desire for kids, yet all the people with kids keep telling me I should, and not having them is selfish (...how? Isn't it the other way around?), and multitude of other reasons why I should definitely have them and that if I don't then I'm somehow a horrible person. What I don't get is why people keep forcing their lifestyle onto those with a different lifestyle? Do they see me having al…

No, it is not the other way around, how could it? Had your parents not had you you would not have been able to voice your opinion on this subject. Were your parents selfish when they did so?

If is not a 'lifestyle' thing to have children, rather the opposite: not having children is a 'lack of life' style. If enough people take up this 'lack of life' style your culture will die out and be replaced with one where having children is the norm. This is not a value proposition but simple math - every couple needs to have ~2.1 children to keep the population at a steady level [1].

Also, 'they' do not see you having all this free time and get jealous, they notice that you're spending time on hedonistic pursuits while time is running out - there is a set time frame within which having children is a viable proposition. They are not jealous of your free time at all because from their perspective it is wasted time - time which could be spent with your family instead of just by yourself or with your partner.

Does this mean you are a horrible person for not wanting to have children? No, of course it does not. Not everybody is brought into this world to raise children. It does mean you are missing out on one of the most formational experiences life has to offer, all that free time you gain does come at a certain cost. The choice is yours to make due to the advent of birth control - choose wisely.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fer...

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#108

If everyone was anti-natalist, civilization would collapse, and there would be no work or no life. Surely some logical people can see it's the wrong approach, unless you despise humans in general and want them gone? We're the only species that can create computing or venture into outer space. Anyways, I have one child and hoping for a second. He has been a total joy for me and my wife since he was born.

Reading the rest of this thread, it seems that the anti-anti-natalists (to which I gravitate more closely) are misrepresenting the anti-natalists' view and that they don't actually expect everyone to be anti-natalist?

Perhaps but even then they’re not exactly being role models or exemplary people.

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#109

For those of you who decided not to have kids in your 20s-30s, and are now in your 40s+, when changing that decision now becomes increasingly more difficult: did you regret it? Did your position of “I want to live my life, I don’t want the hassle or the cost, or there are too many humans already, or something else”, did that position change or weaken? Asking for a friend :)

Nope. 47 now.

As I travel more, my opinion that there are enough humans already has only strengthened.

If I feel the need to scoop up the purported "joy of children", I can visit my sister and wind up my nephew for a few hours, then leave the sugar crash and ensuing tantrums to be her problem as I whizz off back to reality.

I'm so very grateful that my home doesn't have some little narcissist in it running around wearing my face and destroying my property, sanity, and finances. Or at least, not another one. :)

Re: The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

#110
post #33

I've three kids. It's wonderful, it's exhausting, and it's often terrifying. Being a parent is a painful experience, but so is living life. Would my life be easier and less painful without them? Yes. Would my life be better without them? No, just different. I respect antinatalists, but I chose differently. I chose to bring laughter and joy to this absurd, meaningless Universe we habit, even if for a brief lapse. Is i…

It's interesting to note that you consider having children a selfish choice, because in some cultures, not having children is considered selfish.

I think both options are selfish.

You don't do it or not do it for humanity, society or whatever random shit you make up.

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