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Deno in 2023

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Re: Deno in 2023

#101

Post by satvikpendem »

pachico wrote: post #97
nonethewiser wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you comment on what you prefer about it? I find npm/js pretty smooth and the rough edges of Deno seem to kill the purported improvements at this point. That was just my gut-take several months ago and I was already steeped in the node/npm ecosystem so I'm curious about your perspective.

For starters Deno is much, much faster in both installation and runtime. I am not sure if I'll have the chance to exploit other features it has (besides the built-in dotenv support). Not so many years ago, even installing npm wasn't straight forward.

How is it faster in runtime? Isn't it all V8 at the end?

Re: Deno in 2023

#102

Post by andsoitis »

culi wrote: post #86
andsoitis wrote: post #85

what is a great comparison between Bun, Deno, and Node.js? Why should I choose Bun over Deno or vice versa?

Pick your horse to bet on. They both have great teams behind them. Bun (written in Zig) claims higher performance. It looks promising but independent tests have yet to validate these claims. They also kinda have different goals. Bun seeks to be more of a drop-in replacement from Node whereas Deno, being spearheaded by the same person who made Node, seeks to move the industry forward and fix mistakes Deno made. Howeve…

> Deno, being spearheaded by the same person who made Node, seeks to move the industry forward and fix mistakes Deno (I assume you mean Node.js) made.

If they aren't able to evolve Node.js to overcome the mistakes (e.g. because they're technical in nature, or momentum of install base, or they don't have the leadership ability), I am worried that they might repeat the same pattern with Deno, since it isn't possible to NOT make any mistakes.

OTOH, having a clean slate that's learned from mistakes and you can bring a lot of your code along doesn't seem like a major impediment.

Is code written for any of the 3 runtimes generally transferrable? I realize some won't (e.g. Deno has WebGPU support, which is attractive to me), but generally?

Re: Deno in 2023

#103

Post by xtreme »

ecmascript wrote: post #70
dingdingdang wrote: post #36

Would love to see the compile situation fixed - the generated executables are ~90MB+ at this stage and do now allow compression without erroring out. Deploying ala Golang is not feasible at that level but could well be down the line if this dev branch is picked up again! The exe output grew from from ~50MB to plus ~90MB from 2021 to 2024: https://github.com/denoland/deno/discussions/9811 which mean Deno is worse than…

When I download a modern game it's like 700GB so I donno why people complain about 100mb self contained deploys for javascript. Most of it is the international libraries anyway so. I find it pretty ridicolous since I go to a website today and it's at least 15MB each time I refresh but 100MB on the server is a problem? Dude cmon.

There are size limits when deploying on serverless or edge infrastructure so developers have to care about that. The providers also typically charge by compute seconds * memory consumed so a larger executable costs real money as well.

Re: Deno in 2023

#104

Post by webdood90 »

throwitaway1123 wrote: post #59
olestr wrote: post #6

You can join the waitlist in the sneak peak of JSR linked in the end of the article: https://jsr.io/waitlist I'm curious on what the Deno team is building here.

Like others have said, it's going to be a new package registry. It was unofficially announced at SeattleJS Conf 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkqs8Mcxbvo&t=424s

I didn't see any major reason for why they were creating another registry.

I thought their whole thing was to maintain backwards compatibility, not introduce new, redundant standards?

Re: Deno in 2023

#105

Post by agos »

I'd love to use Fresh but a framework for web development which calls itself v1.x and yet only supports Tailwind for styling purposes feels very immature.

The fact that for the next iteration they are prioritizing view transitions and not CSS bundling is baffling.

Re: Deno in 2023

#106

Post by Kinrany »

willsmith72 wrote: post #33
vorticalbox wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If node.js decided to include functionality similar to what is available on Bun/Deno, both projects would probably lose traction quickly. I believe this too. The big appeal for me is not having to install typescript, eslint, jest AND then set up all the configs. deno has nice defaults, though the importing via URLS and browser compatible API do make deno very tempting

that feels like a really weak value prop to me. how often do you have to install that stuff? how hard is it actually? can you really not use, e.g. for react, the typical vite starter and it's done?

For one-off scripts: every time.

So Deno is better at small scripts written in Typescript than Node. Then, the question becomes, if you're going to have Deno installed and if it works well enough to replace Node, why keep Node?

Re: Deno in 2023

#107

Post by Kinrany »

cryptonym wrote: post #100
crubier wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually found this worrying, since it means they are not committed to make NextJS work nicely, quite the opposite they now have incentive to not make it happen

NextJS doesn't have an incentive to run on anything else than Vercel. I wouldn't blame this on Deno.

I wonder if Vercel might eventually choose to run on Deno

Re: Deno in 2023

#108

Post by Kinrany »

smokel wrote: post #29
MadSudaca wrote: post #26

I know it sound silly but I love the aesthetic behind Deno's brand, it makes me want to use it for one project or another. Node.js is so old now. it's reliable but boring. I want something new, bold, and daring. Node.js is not it, although it was ~11 years ago. It's interesting how our views change.

This does indeed sound silly. If people were to use proper arguments to select technology, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. Unfortunately, most of us are more susceptible towards aesthetics, novelty, and admiration of self-proclaimed software gurus. Thanks for being open about this and sharing. It would have been nice if I had realized this aspect of technological evolution earlier in my career. I migh…

Novelty is good. Not every new thing is an improvement, but every improvement is a new thing.

Re: Deno in 2023

#109

Post by lkadjal »

andsoitis wrote: post #85

what is a great comparison between Bun, Deno, and Node.js? Why should I choose Bun over Deno or vice versa?

Just build something useful. Your users don't care. Even PHP is good enough if you know what to build.

If you don't, focus on pointless things like Bun vs Node vs Deno, get some dopamine hits and fool yourself into thinking you are being productive.

Re: Deno in 2023

#110

Post by Kinrany »

Leokuma wrote: post #98
papruapap wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. This feature just make it worse as a script language, which are supposed to have rapid development.

You just add a flag to the command line to give permissions. It won't harm your productivity.

Even without flags, it will ask to allow access interactively instead of silently aborting.
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