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Write code for the web

mrmr.io

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Re: Write code for the web

#101

Post by blashyrk »

pjmlp wrote: post #25
aetch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. Have you ever used Android Studio IDE? The grass always looks greener on the other side but Xcode and iOS development is miles ahead of how slow and unhelpful Android Studio is the majority of the time. Don’t even get me started on opening up your app 6 months later to update the code and it’s a 99% chance some Android gradle build system or dependency has changed and broken the build…

I love how it has become a meme in Android developer circles that a "stable" Android Studio release always requires a fix release shortly thereafter. Also Gradle breaking the DSL all the time has become such a pain, that eventually they had to create an upgrade wizard, as if debugging performance issues with the build wasn't fun enough.

Say what you want against Gradle, but that method of project/workspace configuration is miles, no, lightyears ahead of the dumpster fire that is the xcodeproj format, especially when working in a team.

Re: Write code for the web

#102

Post by ederamen »

DotaFan wrote: post #61

Native stack is tailored for native devices, using web for that is just not as reliable/maintainable/cost efficient in my opinion. Sure, you can have less devs to support both platforms, but as soon as you need some hardware functionalities, you're not gonna have much of an options, besides what web tech libs you have in the store.

Agreed, but it's because Apple has deliberately and relentlessly sabotaged PWAs as a competitive option.

If it were in their financial/competitive interest for PWAs to be amazing on iOS, they would be.

Unfortunately for us this would circumvent their 30% app tax, so they'll be dying on this hill.

Re: Write code for the web

#103

Post by mnvrth »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #33
zshrc wrote: post #2

Apple provides thousands of APIs to make developing on the platform easier, has created their own programming language that integrates nicely with the platform and has a fully integrated IDE that works with both above. Sure, buddy… They don’t care about you unless you develop for their platform. And who can blame? The above is a terribly expensive and timely investment.

I likewise have a fairly sunny perspective of Apple development, I even like XCode (since SwiftUI, at least… could never get the hang of Interface Builder). But the fact that he got in to work on a music app is illuminating. The Apple audio APIs are an absolute mess. Media Player, AVPlayer, Core Audio, AVFoundation, AVAudioEngine… it's like competing teams dating all the way back to NeXT kept writing their own libs a…

OP here. Funny you mention Shoutcast, because a Shoutcast player is what I'd made earlier - https://github.com/mnvr/Soundtrack. So I sort of know what you mean :)

And you know the reason why it's macOS only? because the Apple App store reviewer rejected it heh.

Re: Write code for the web

#104

Post by berkes »

DotaFan wrote: post #61

Native stack is tailored for native devices, using web for that is just not as reliable/maintainable/cost efficient in my opinion. Sure, you can have less devs to support both platforms, but as soon as you need some hardware functionalities, you're not gonna have much of an options, besides what web tech libs you have in the store.

But a surprisingly large amount of apps don't need hardware functionalities or could easily provide (most of) their value without them.

Sure, some high end games. But they're more an exception. What other app are you thinking of?

Re: Write code for the web

#105

Post by idle_zealot »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #15

Early on, I made the choice to not to invest in learning native mobile development. I focused all my limited time on the web, and I think that, for once, I made the right choice. Today, one can build amazing stuff for the browser. And, in my very humble opinion, the vast majority of apps should've been WebApps — except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games. I worked in the journalism business, and, in my country, t…

> except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games

I understand Drive working better as a native app; it needs to be able to provide a virtual filesystem to the OS and do background syncing and such. But why Uber? Uber has (or maybe had) a mobile site that works fine for requesting rides and basically everything the app can do. I don't see what value Uber being a native app adds for the user. The same goes for most mobile games; they tend to have simple graphics that the browser is perfectly capable of rendering with great performance, and they tend to reinvent all common UI components so losing access to native system buttons and such wouldn't make a difference. PWAs should also provide plenty of storage for local save files and other game data. The exception of course being games that really push the system to its limits. I don't expect, say, Death Stranding or the RE4 remake to work well without direct access to native graphics acceleration, and they're too large to load as a single webpage. I will reiterate though that this is not the case for most mobile apps, even extremely profitable F2P ones that would benefit greatly from an extra 30% revenue. Why then do they not target the web? My gut feel is that it's because mobile users are trained to look in the app store for apps and games, not the web, while desktop users expect apps to be available in the browser with the exception of some professional tools and high-end games. That is to say, it's largely a cultural problem. Of course, Apple's lackluster support or PWAs doesn't help.

Re: Write code for the web

#106

Post by bmitc »

kredd wrote: post #80
bmitc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't that it was not supported. It is that Apple is openly antagonistic to and actively blocks anything that isn't theirs. And you also left out key information. I don't have any issues with the same development on Windows or Linux. Apple is the outlier and isn't doing some reasonable thing. Apple is by far the most troublesome platform to develop for. They literally make you do it their way, and you cannot reco…

I generally agree with you, but on the other side of the coin, if you follow the processes they’re forcing on you… it’s pretty seamless. Sometimes it’s a bit buggy when they release new APIs or versions of tooling, but given the amount of people who do Native development and the money it generates, it gets resolved.

I don't have infinite time and energy. It would be easier to just not support macOS rather than learn an entire stack just for them. Microsoft also has a Windows-only stack, but its perfectly fine to use others.

Re: Write code for the web

#107

Post by ederamen »

dgfitz wrote: post #81
ederamen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't develop those APIs out of the goodness of their heart - it's a lock in strategy. They've made it practically impossible to write native cross platform code that runs on IOS, and they've everything they can (within political limits) to prevent web apps from being able to compete with native apps.

I’ve had success with Qt building an app that compiles on Android and iOS. I’m not in the app development business at $dayjob though.

Oh cool - I started looking into Qt a while ago but was confused by their license. Would you recommend it?

Re: Write code for the web

#108

Post by berkes »

sspiff wrote: post #69

>The dependency goes Developer -> Apple and Apple -> Consumer, there is no reverse arrow from Apple to the developers. Is that really true? If Apple is abandoned by large developers (let's say of Adobe, Microsoft calibre), does it not harm their sales or revenue? It certainly isn't universally true. For young or new platforms, like the transition to ARM a few years ago, or the Vision Pro today, Apple needs developer…

I doubt it is true.

Apple's recent malevolent compliance with the EU anti-monopoly rulings, show that Apple at least cares a lot about the money these developers have to pay Apple (fees etc).

Re: Write code for the web

#109

Post by ahmedfromtunis »

dtagames wrote: post #79

This author seems confused about something that he, himself explains. The reason that Apple doesn't care about developers is that they have created such a walled garden cult w/ users that developers are forced to produce products for their platform or they lose half their market -- or more. At my day job in mobile game development (for a small studio inside a large company), we have to fight Apple constantly -- not o…

I think this is because Apple is a hardware company, that uses software to attract consumers. While Microsoft is a software company, that uses hardware to attract consumers.

Re: Write code for the web

#110

Post by jahewson »

lagniappe wrote: post #7

Apple users are conditioned to pay for things. Apple applications have higher buy rates than other platforms because outside of HN the average Apple user is less capable and less likely to pirate or need "Free" to entice their attention. I don't think anybody writes software for Apple thinking that they "care" any more than Google or Microsoft.

> the average Apple user is less capable

Do you actually have any evidence to back up this claim? I’m assuming the real reason is because the average Apple user has a higher income than the average non-Apple user.

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