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Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

prospectmagazine.co.uk

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Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#101

Post by forinti »

ghaff wrote: post #95
forinti wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time getting change, because in my country ATMs like to spit out large denominations. But for my daily activities (the bus, really) I need change. In the cases where I would need a large bill I use credit cards. The highest denomination in my country is worth about US$40, but that is a large amount of money. Yesterday I payed for lunch for 4 with about half that. So I wish the larger denominations would…

On the rare occasions I use them--mostly when traveling--I've noticed some ATMs offering a choice of denominations. But it was certainly true historically that ATMs tended to spit out bills in denominations that were at least at the high end of what people used for day to day transactions.

The ATMs I use use the least number of bills for the amount you asked. If they have lower denominations, I sometimes make two withdrawals in order to avoid the larger bills.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#102

Post by nonrandomstring »

There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion.

- Cash is anonymous

- Cash is an "old" or "low" technology.

When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines.

Modern cash is high technology. Look at a UK or European note already. Holograms, nano-technology, advanced materials science... It's well past the point of being worth forging, and it is likely that future banknotes will use einks, embedded printable passive electronics to do all of the things people hope or fear of purely digital cash, such as time-out, store variable value, and be more traceable.

The function cash really performs is a resilience buffer for person to person transactions that works independently of electrical power and Internet. Smart people at the top are never going to let that slide, because it would be national security suicide and practically inviting civil unrest.

Cash, in evolving forms is here to stay, but it may not have all the properties we think it has and defend it for.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#103

Post by madsbuch »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #89
madsbuch wrote: post #11

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

> high social trust. With the rise of ML, and people salivating over the data inherent in currency flow, I suspect that trust may soon go the way of the dodo. In the US, anything that makes money tends to get helped along. Regulators look the other way (until some knucklehead starts stealing from rich people), and even the lowest-level employees become "stans" of their bosses. I am a believer in the promise of social…

it is dangerous to assume that the US culture is the default culture.

social trust is not a new thing in Scandinavia. it has been a part of the society for centuries.

Denmark is arguably also more capitalistic than the US. the median wealth is almost double that of the US. hence the Danish system, despite some of the world's highest taxes, easier allow people to build wealth.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#104

Post by ghaff »

rwmj wrote: post #79
ghaff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's becoming more common but for someone like my housekeeper, I may not even be home and can just leave a check on the counter. As I say, I could doubtless make alternative arrangements but a check is the default and it's easy.

For someone I need to pay regularly like a cleaner I would set up a bank transfer recipient in my banking app (or website) and then payments - either one offs or regularly scheduled - are simple, instant and free.

And so is writing a check and leaving it on the counter--especially for a service that is somewhat predictable but actually isn't on a set schedule. She texts me that she's coming next week, I write a check and leave it on the counter, done.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#105

Post by coldtea »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #102

There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion. - Cash is anonymous - Cash is an "old" or "low" technology. When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Modern cash is high technology . Look…

>When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines.

Which is neither here, not there. Cash is effectively anonymous for 99% of uses that don't involve "major crime". Your buying something is not logged anywhere, for example.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#107

Post by hasty_pudding »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #102

There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion. - Cash is anonymous - Cash is an "old" or "low" technology. When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Modern cash is high technology . Look…

> Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked

Is this true? When I buy something from my local gas station is there a system in place tracking every serial number exchanged on the cash?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#108

Post by switch007 »

cge wrote: post #85
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can barely enjoy a full day without being required to bring my phone / debit card with me because the register does not accept cash. Buy somewhere else (if humanly possible), and tell this to the vendor who doesn't want to accept cash.

This is increasingly difficult, at least in Western Europe, without it being a significant imposition. I've had several instances where, despite absolutely no signage or indication anywhere outside the business, inside the business, or on the menu, I've waited in a queue, ordered something, and only when I'm ready to pay been told that the, eg, coffee shop won't accept cash. I've also been to several restaurants, esp…

In England at least, those behaviours are legal, without a doubt [0][1]

I'm not aware of a law that requires them to clearly sign post which payment methods they accept. I think there are various laws in other places in Europe though. I'm definitely all for that

They're taking on the risk of spoilage by not putting in any effort to make you aware before ordering - and hoping you'll just pay by card due to the sunk time cost. Shady but not illegal AFAIK.

[0] https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/what-are-the-rules-on-p...

[1] https://fullfact.org/online/legal-tender-cash-in-shops/

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#109

Post by arthur_sav »

asystole wrote: post #49
impossiblefork wrote: post #31

I think what's required is electronic cash, something like a CBDC with an electronically transferable, partially anonymous system that still allows offline payments if case the central computers get knocked out. GNU Taler satisfies one half of these constraints (cashlikeness + taxability). The Swedish e-krona pilot also has a token based component to allow offline payments.

We already have this. It's called bitcoin. For offline payments, there's physical devices like opendime and potentially Chaumian mints like cashu.

Lets be honest, bitcoin is not usable for every day transactions.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#110

Post by coldtea »

Xplune13 wrote: post #44
Alifatisk wrote: post #33

I believe once we go fully cashless, we'll regret it and wish we could go back. I can barely enjoy a full day without being required to bring my phone / debit card with me because the register does not accept cash.

That's a new one. Genuine question, why do you prefer using cash instead of using a phone or card?

Not new at all. Many people feel that way. Lots of good arguments too.
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