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Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

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Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#101

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #32
mushufasa wrote: post #20

I spent the summer in Berlin and, as an American, was a bit culture shocked by how little time people worked, and how so many people I met bragged about collecting paid time off for reasons they admitted to making up, which the government enforced all employers must allow. As an employer, I'd be afraid of hiring in countries like Germany for an international workforce if that meant I have to have a patchwork of speci…

>I spent the summer in Berlin and, as an American That's a pretty bad way to get an impression of a whole country. That's like those American tourists visiting only the instagramable parts of Paris and Rome and then say they "saw Europe" lol. Especially that Berlin is basically an American/Expat enclave in Germany where the native Germans are a minority to the point they're annoyed that nobody at cafes, bars and rest…

[flagged]

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#102

Post by jonp888 »

All employees in Germany(except in very small companies) have the right to request a reduction in their working hours, and the employer must allow it. The employee does not need to provide any justification for the request, and the employer must accept it unless they can show it would cause significant disruption to the business. That said, I can imagine in some companies there might be informal and social consequences to doing so.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#103

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

JAlexoid wrote: post #65
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I spent the summer in Berlin and, as an American That's a pretty bad way to get an impression of a whole country. That's like those American tourists visiting only the instagramable parts of Paris and Rome and then say they "saw Europe" lol. Especially that Berlin is basically an American/Expat enclave in Germany where the native Germans are a minority to the point they're annoyed that nobody at cafes, bars and rest…

Berlin is cosmopolitan, not "Expat enclave". Berlin attracts people from all over Europe and the common language is English.

[flagged]

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#104

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

bastardoperator wrote: post #23

The question I think needs answering is why we wouldn't do it. Obviously most people would love to have an extra 52 days a year to themselves to spend with family, do hobbies, handle personal business. Outside of greed or operational commitments, why aren't we doing this?

politicians don't want the plebs to have too much time for anything other than working ... that's just asking for trouble. the less people work, the more they think, come up with ideas and even start to realize that working is for most people in most situations a mere waste of their life time. personally I do believe that work in some way is essential for human life and well being - but I write "some way" because it would be difficult to describe how that would look like but the present state of what working is like for most people is a pathogenic perversion in my opinion.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#105

Post by diarrhea »

poisonborz wrote: post #92
diarrhea wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please no, because then the draconian 3 months notice period kicks in. Truly an artefact of a time past. Take today’s date: if you quit February 1st, you can only start at a new place June 1st! At least 3, but up to 4 months of a continued work relationship is unattractive for both parties I’d say. (At least that’s the widely used rule; the law only specifies a minimum notice period of 1 month)

I don't get this, what has probation to do with the notice period? I don't know of anyone in the industry who has a contract with less than 3 (maybe 2) months of notice. Your work is not serious if your employee can risk you leaving within 1 month (counting in unused holidays, 1-2 weeks even?)

Notice periods are much shorter during probation periods. It might kick up from 2 weeks (within probation) to the 3-4 months the day probation ends.

There’s no progression in between.

Of course, for serious work, notice periods of 3 months or even longer make sense. But those levels should only kick in after several years. If you’ve been with a company for only a year, there’s no point in a 3 month period.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#106

Post by jonp888 »

pitkali wrote: post #62
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I spent the summer in Berlin and, as an American That's a pretty bad way to get an impression of a whole country. That's like those American tourists visiting only the instagramable parts of Paris and Rome and then say they "saw Europe" lol. Especially that Berlin is basically an American/Expat enclave in Germany where the native Germans are a minority to the point they're annoyed that nobody at cafes, bars and rest…

> Especially that Berlin is basically an American/Expat enclave in Germany where the native Germans are a minority to the point they're annoyed that nobody at cafes, bars and restaurants can take their orders in German. This is a pretty tired trope. As an immigrant living in Berlin since 2020, first in Prenzlauer Berg and now in Schöneweide, I still haven't found those enclaves that even speak English, let alone don'…

I have eaten in Restaurants and and shopped in shops in Berlin where at least some of the staff were unable to speak even the very basic German needed to take an order or inform the customer of the price. This seemingly wasn't considered a reason not to employ them. As another example, there are plenty, perhaps even the majority of Yoga studios that work in English only.

It's probably going too far to call it an "enclave", but I don't think any of this would happen in any other German city.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#107

Post by shiroiuma »

enasterosophes wrote: post #38
appplemac wrote: post #4

Instead of a 4-day workweek how about setting reasonable hiring standards so that hundreds of thousands of people out of work, especially non-native German speakers, have a chance of getting past the job application screen. Most jobs, even in tech, in DE currently require good knowledge of German, and "good" is being interpreted as near-native.

As someone in an English-speaking country, I expect my colleagues to have good English. We operate a helpdesk where clear communication is essential. Internally, we need to be able to quickly coordinate with each other on highly technical problems. If someone from another country came in with a bad attitude about "why do I need good English?" we would be more than a little hesitant about hiring them. It doesn't matte…

It IS different in non-English speaking countries. I live in Japan and work in an English workplace. The harsh reality is, if you want to hire talented in-demand people from outside your country, and your country's language isn't English, then you have to accommodate English in your workplace.

If you insist on using your local language only, then you will only have applicants from your own country: very few qualified candidates living outside Germany(/Austria) or Japan can speak those languages at a highly proficient level. If you have no need of importing professionals from abroad, that's OK; obviously it's easier to recruit people in your own country if you stick to your country's native language. But if you have a big talent shortage (as is typically the case for the tech sector), then not accommodating English will mean you can't compete against companies that are more international (i.e., they use English).

Like it or not, English is the most commonly-spoken 2nd language in the world; it's the international language of business and trade. College-educated professionals mostly all speak it these days. So if you want an international company, English it is.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#108

Post by whstl »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #71
pitkali wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially that Berlin is basically an American/Expat enclave in Germany where the native Germans are a minority to the point they're annoyed that nobody at cafes, bars and restaurants can take their orders in German. This is a pretty tired trope. As an immigrant living in Berlin since 2020, first in Prenzlauer Berg and now in Schöneweide, I still haven't found those enclaves that even speak English, let alone don'…

They might be talking about the famous Kreuzkölln bubble around Görli, Kotti and Schlesi.

I find it easier to hear Turkish than English there.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#109

Post by shasts »

mgraupner wrote: post #97
shasts wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bayern. 4 years bachelor's degree in civil engineering, hydro science and engineering Master's.

Ok, that's a field I'm not familiar with. I guess this is more of a government field of work and they are more conservative in their hiring process. I found the following jobs and the amount is pretty limited (and in Eastern Germany/Saxonia): https://www.xing.com/jobs/hydrowissenschaften?keywords=Hydro... or https://www.melioplan.de/stellenangebote Edit: https://www.stepstone.de/jobs/wasserbau-ingenieur Here are far…

Thank you for taking the effort, and for the wishes. Hopefully she find something soon.

Re: Germany explores 4-day workweek amid labor shortage

#110

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

nvm0n2 wrote: post #98
mrks_hy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is misleading because it says Germany is exploring - suggesting there is anything like a cultural shift/push on a society-wide scale to explore. That unfortunately is not the case. German work culture as a whole is very much still "butts in seats", working for the predefined number of hours per week with a fixed quota each day, and the Stempeluhr [1] is very much alive even in white collar jobs. 1: https://…

If you interpret Germany to mean German government mandate then I can see how it would seem misleading, but if you interpret Germany as the people who live there, then 45 random companies (that the journalist could find, there will be more) is actually pretty good evidence of a society wide exploration.

I did think the government when I read the title
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