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The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

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Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and ̶G̶m̶a̶i̶l̶ email is such a successful example.

Imagine if the progenitors of email thought to require e-stamps, say a thousand emails for a buck. There's a parallel universe where 'Email co.' is a major tech player comparable to Google. Not sure it's a better universe, but bears consideration.

In the late 1980s, I worked for a company that wanted to do exactly that.

It was an X.400-based nightmare, and never took off.

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#102

> I figured I’d publish a short list of things Ello will never do: > ... > 2. Tolerate hate. Ello has many tools, some visible and others not, that help keep this network positive. Geez, it's hard to take anything said as authentic with a statement like that. How can you talk about things without "hate"? "I hate shoveling snow." "I hate terrorists." "I hate this political candidate." "I hate Taylor Swift music."

How about "I hate reductive hackernewses who fail to engage constructively with the discourse and instead turn to gotcha language that 9-year-olds think is terribly clever"?

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#103
post #82

I wonder if it's possible to take the Wikipedia model (open source, non profit entity) and use that to build a social network.

Wikipedia is special in that 1) it's very cacheable so the infrastructure costs are low and 2) it's not too expensive in terms of development since I assume people don't expect many features.

It also has a better charity story, because "summarizing the knowledge of mankind" seems a tag more lofty than a social network.

(Even if that's not the case...)

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#105
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested about the public benefit corporation part here. Did the PBC status wind up changing anything at all here? How does a PBC sell itself or get acquired? How is a PBC supposed to terminate or wind down? If they violate their charter as Ello may have, who exactly enforces it or file a lawsuit, and what is their compensation?

Nobody should trust my opinion, I am not an attorney, let alone one specialized in this area. In my understanding, a PBC is effectively the same as a for-profit company with regards to these sorts of things. Unlike a non-profit, a PBC has stock, which it can sell, so that's how it would get acquired. I believe that there were even some PBC SPACs back when that was fashionable. > If they violate their charter as Ello…

More PBC vs non-profit info[0]:

> Benefit corporations are neither nonprofits nor hybrid nonprofits. Benefit corporations are for-profit corporations that need to consider stakeholders, morals, or missions in addition to making a profit for their shareholders. Nonprofits can't be benefit corporations, but they may create one. Due to the public benefit purpose provisions, expanded fiduciary duties of administrators, and extra shareholder rights created within the model benefit corporation laws, this structure may be helpful to operate and scale the earned-income activities of a nonprofit.

[0] https://www.upcounsel.com/public-benefit-corporation

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#106

> I figured I’d publish a short list of things Ello will never do: > ... > 2. Tolerate hate. Ello has many tools, some visible and others not, that help keep this network positive. Geez, it's hard to take anything said as authentic with a statement like that. How can you talk about things without "hate"? "I hate shoveling snow." "I hate terrorists." "I hate this political candidate." "I hate Taylor Swift music."

I was head of technology for another "make a better world" social network, and we approached fostering positivity as a practice of encouraging constructive interaction and discouraging _destructive_ interaction.

In other words, being directly abusive toward others was obviously destructive and discouraged, but disagreement, even when quite strong, was great, as long as everyone involved maintained a level of basic respect when interacting with each other.

There's also a big difference between vehement dislike of a distant thing, concept or person, especially if one can express their reasons well, and using slurs or advocating violence or harm. I imagine here they used 'hate' to stand in for 'hate speech', but not being in their minds - I really don't know.

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#107

> I figured I’d publish a short list of things Ello will never do: > ... > 2. Tolerate hate. Ello has many tools, some visible and others not, that help keep this network positive. Geez, it's hard to take anything said as authentic with a statement like that. How can you talk about things without "hate"? "I hate shoveling snow." "I hate terrorists." "I hate this political candidate." "I hate Taylor Swift music."

How about "I hate reductive hackernewses who fail to engage constructively with the discourse and instead turn to gotcha language that 9-year-olds think is terribly clever"?

Sure, great example!

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#108
post #59
post #11

I'm a recovering founder after winding down my startup a couple months ago. I've been thinking about getting back on the saddle and in service of that, meeting with folks who could be potential co-founders. One of the first ~5 questions I ask is whether they want to bootstrap or go down the VC route. Because they are very different paths, with different levels of pressure and mostly importantly, expectation. You _hav…

Bootstrapping social tech ain’t easy. Expectations that this tech is free, plus the immediate need for support and safety for general populations mean that it’s very different than say, B2B SaaS.

Good points - social communities have less of an autopilot component than b2b SaaS.

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#109
I'm not sure why this post focuses so much on the angel investment. There are probably 10 reasons why Ello failed, starting with the fact that bootstrapping social network userbases is hard, and ending with users won't pay for social networks. None of these are directly related to the fact they built the site with investor money and not volunteer hours.

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and ̶G̶m̶a̶i̶l̶ email is such a successful example.

Imagine if the progenitors of email thought to require e-stamps, say a thousand emails for a buck. There's a parallel universe where 'Email co.' is a major tech player comparable to Google. Not sure it's a better universe, but bears consideration.

I remember a joke (or conspiracy theory) from the 90’s that the US Postal Service wanted to charge people per email.
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