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Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

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Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#101
post #5

Feels like Apple is really tempting fate at this point. They essentially won v. Epic (as of yesterday, SCOTUS rejected the appeal). I'm not sure why they feel so emboldened to add a 27% tax on web purchases as well. Completely wild, but I guess shareholder value must always go up.

They feel emboldened because the judge specifically called out that this was the most likely outcome from them being forced to unbundle their payment processor:

> First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collect that commission.

> In such a hypothetical world, developers could potentially avoid the commission while benefitting from Apple's innovation and intellectual property free of charge. The Court presumes that in such circumstances that Apple may rely on imposing and utilizing a contractual right to audit developers annual accounting to ensure compliance with its commissions, among other methods. Of course, any alternatives to IAP (including the foregoing) would seemingly impose both increased monetary and time costs to both Apple and the developers.

https://casetext.com/case/epic-games-inc-v-apple-inc-2

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#102

Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax. It must be consistent without exceptions (i.e. not just Amazon). The issue is not the gratuitous fee, it is the lack of choice. iOS is more ubiquitous than macOS yet more restrictive--it cannot last. This entitlement is so restrictive -- it just seems vindictive. Apple's market share and success means additional responsibility. The argument t…

>Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax.

And I want to put my product in Walmart for free while Walmart pays for the warehouse, staff, marketing, returns, and product inspection.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. If you want to include a link to an website for payment of digital goods, you have to request an entitlement from Apple. 2. As part of that entitlement, you agree to pay Apple a 27% commission on any purchases made when users click those links, for up to 7 days after the link is clicked. 3. You agree to send Apple monthly sales reports. 4. You agreed to give Apple a right to audit your books at anytime. That's the…

> Developers are in arms because they don't believe Apple deserves any money for distributing their app on their App Store. Rephrased - Developers are up in arms because the cost of distribution on iOS is artificially high. It's artificially high because the cost is not subject to market forces. It's not subject to market forces because Apple has a vertical monopoly on hardware and software distribution. Vertical int…

That's not true in the slightest, though. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Steam all take 30% for distribution and hosting, same as Apple. It's not artificially high if it's in line with the rest of the tech industry and if you want to try and claim that it's because of some monopoly, vertical or otherwise, then you have to explain why the other storefronts are also monopolies.

It's not a monopoly. Other phones and ecosystems exist.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#104
post #78

I think what’s missing here is sideloading. The new terms apple set are ridiculous, but it’s their App Store, so whatever. However, this iPhone is my device and I should be able to install whatever app I’d like on it. Without that freedom, Apple has no competition and can set their fees as high as they please.

They do have competition. Most phones aren't iPhones.

Considering this case is in the USA, iPhones have a >53% market share and iPads >55%.

But regardless of that, they have no competition in iOS app distribution.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the EU will help solve that problem.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry this is a total fabrication - we know the sales of iPhones entirely cover all expenses associated with hardware manufacturing and R&D. Their margins on laptops are thinner but the AppStore is not as relevant there. The situation is the other way round - it’s the App Store that makes the iPhone useful. Windows Phone (the remake one) had good hardware, it literally was killed by lack of apps. I had one, I mi…

And who played part in Windows Phone demise? Epic? Which never released the Unreal Engine for Windows Phone and now cries the loudest about the status quo. Or the 1000’s of developers who abandoned pre App Store distribution models in favor of Apple’s hardware, software and APIs, happily signed up to 30% revenue share with Apple that didn't change in 15 years? (other than go down to 15% for 90% of sellers who do unde…

LMAO

MICROSOFT played the hugest part in Windows Phone demise. I still had a Palm Pre at the time and was waiting for a particular yellow Nokia Windows Phone to release for Sprint. My recollection is muddy after that but Windows Phone was no more so I got an iPhone.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. If you want to include a link to an website for payment of digital goods, you have to request an entitlement from Apple. 2. As part of that entitlement, you agree to pay Apple a 27% commission on any purchases made when users click those links, for up to 7 days after the link is clicked. 3. You agree to send Apple monthly sales reports. 4. You agreed to give Apple a right to audit your books at anytime. That's the…

> Developers are in arms because they don't believe Apple deserves any money for distributing their app on their App Store. Rephrased - Developers are up in arms because the cost of distribution on iOS is artificially high. It's artificially high because the cost is not subject to market forces. It's not subject to market forces because Apple has a vertical monopoly on hardware and software distribution. Vertical int…

> Vertical integration is illegal.

Is it? The only related info I could find is https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/012615/what-are-leg..., which says it _can_ be illegal (in the USA) if it is achieved through a merger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_integration mentions quite a few examples of existing vertically integrated companies, mentions a few court cases, but doesn’t say it’s outright illegal.

Also, if vertical integration is illegal in the USA, somebody should tell Musk he should split up Tesla and SpaceX.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#107

Can anyone provide a link to context on what OP is talking about, for those who don't know it? I don't understand what Apple is actually doing from this tweet/thread. Are they are somehow managing to force even payment links from ordinary web sites in an ordinary web browser (Safari?) to go through them as payment processor? (How?) Or is this a new rule for app store apps (what is the new rule?) Or a new payment stru…

https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl... And there is more to this issue than people realise. Apple has had major lawsuits over the years [1] due to kids racking up large credit card bills via in-app purchases. And similar concerns exist for gambling apps. So this explains why they need to show such a large warning because they don't want to be held responsible for actions of a third party. Whi…

That's a bad faith argument that even Apple wouldn't make. Otherwise, why don't they throw up warnings every time you use Safari?

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#108
Apple collects the rent from the apps that exist withn their walled garden. Epic employs behavioural specialists tasked in making their games addictive and coerce user into spending with micro-transactions.

I do not want to take a side in this fight.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#109

Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax. It must be consistent without exceptions (i.e. not just Amazon). The issue is not the gratuitous fee, it is the lack of choice. iOS is more ubiquitous than macOS yet more restrictive--it cannot last. This entitlement is so restrictive -- it just seems vindictive. Apple's market share and success means additional responsibility. The argument t…

This argument has been repeatedly made over the past 24 hours with a lot of emotion but little justification. The judge forced Apple to unbundle their payments. Apple's solution to that is probably overly restrictive. And I suspect that you're right that 27% is too large a cut to survive. With both of those points granted, though, your argument seems to be that Apple should be obliged to host, distribute, and market…

They don't have to perform that service if they allow other app stores or people install apps like they can on macos. The app store is more for Apple than it is for devs

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#110
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean I gotta give respect to Apple. They seem to have done the minimal technical compliance with the order. it's borderline contempt of court > I can respect though how they approached a potentially large setback for their business. I'd be pretty mad if I was the judge, they might like my 2nd ruling even less

Hopefully the judge isn't like that. Bit of a silly character trait for a judge.

turns out courts don't like people treating them with contempt
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