Plenty of these on LI today unfortunately. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/skoroleva_opentowork-techsale... https://twitter.com/BowTiedPassport/status/17451497589921956...
1 is the same as posted there fyi
Check the comments - lots of others.
Cloudflare lays off new hires
101–110 of 276 posts
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#102[flagged]
because in America a job is the difference between life or very dangerous homelessness and death. if we didn't have such shit social safety nets here, it wouldn't be that personal.
Us Silicon Valley engineers are some of the best compensated people in the country, maybe even the world.
If she’s living hand to mouth, then the problem isn’t her compensation but something else.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#103I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…
What does it matter? If they say they overhired, you have people in here asking why the CEO (or the board) doesn't get fired for that decision. If they say their investors are demanding better returns (e.g. higher stock price, higher profits, wahtever that means for the particular business) you have people in here saying it's greed. There is no answer Cloudflare could give her or anyone else that would make folks go…
> So why even bother giving one?
Decency? Honesty?
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm also interested in the responses to your questions, but I would ask something else: are non-tech companies also doing layoffs? I'm not in the US so I'm not really up to date to that.
The layoffs are widespread. For example, Dominos just laid off 1,200 drivers. However discussions about the economy's health become particularly politicaly charged during an election year. So any conversation about the state of the economy, whether it's perceived as good or bad, inevitably carries political implications in this context. Edit: it is not Dominos it is Pizza Hut https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/pizza…
2024: A year of political turmoil and economic uncertainty:
https://www.allianz.com/en/press/news/studies/231215-allianz...
Very interesting read.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
I didn't ask to be born therefore I have no duties to you or to anyone other than myself. You accepted no duty to ensure my life was protected from harm or that it's circumstances were fair. You can talk sensibly about global reproductive control once you've ensured that everyone's life is fair and just. Humans are animals. We individually self regulate or we would die. We collectively don't which is why we were able…
> I didn't ask to be born therefore I have no duties to you or to anyone other than myself.
I reject the form of this claim. Duty is precisely the kind of thing you owe due to your continued existence. It has nothing to do with your lack of choice in springing yourself into existence to whatever place you were born.
If you want to reject the notion of duty, logically speaking, I think you'll need another argument, but I suspect it won't be based in anything resembling ethics as we know it -- I suspect the only logically valid arguments against duty presuppose that only one individual matters (the individual being you, of course, that most important of all beings).
> I didn't ask to be born therefore I have no duties to you or to anyone other than myself.
You may not feel such a duty. But it doesn't mean such a worldview is in your own rational self-interest. People in society aren't overly pleased by those who are overly individualistic. When people notice others who aren't contributing much, it can have negative consequences. Sure, free riding happens, but it doesn't make it ethical.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup individual employees are definitely on equal footing with companies and health care is very affordable when purchased individually. The free market is very good and fair and everything is going just fine!
You are free to create your own asymmetrically powerful business entity to rebalance the odds, if you find them unfair.
Translation: a union.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#107Hey this is very similar to my story 2 years ago! (different company) It's only going to get worse, but protip: if you don't want to deal with the interview circuit like I did, set your salary expectations hilariously low and at least you will still collect income. Good luck to everyone in our shoes!
When hiring, I'm suspicious of qualified people with low income expectations, I don't think this is a winning strategy personally and I'd take this advice with a grain of salt.
Suspicious of what, exactly? If someone needs work and aren’t landing the jobs, is there another approach they should be taking?
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#108I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…
What does it matter? If they say they overhired, you have people in here asking why the CEO (or the board) doesn't get fired for that decision. If they say their investors are demanding better returns (e.g. higher stock price, higher profits, wahtever that means for the particular business) you have people in here saying it's greed. There is no answer Cloudflare could give her or anyone else that would make folks go…
It matters because this is about trust, transparency, and honesty. If you were in her position, would you want to know if your termination was due to something you did badly, or because of a general company policy?
I agree that being honest is not going to make everyone happy, but I don't understand why they can't at least give solid reasons.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#109I wonder if the US will ever get first-world tier labor laws that prevent companies from screwing people over like this. Doesn't seem likely any time soon, but it's so insane how healthcare and everything is tied to an employer and in most places they can just fire you on a whim and not offer severance or anything.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. Strong labor protections and a generous social safety net with the goal of making it so that being fired isn't the end of the world would be a huge net positive for the labor market. Guilt free firing means you can allocate labor efficiently where it's actually needed specifically because you're not dealing with people's livelihoods. And right now our social safety net for sit…
In what way do you feel unemployment isn't sufficient? It seems to be high enough that people are able to provide for necessities while being low enough to keep them looking for another job...even if it isn't quite as much as they were making before. That seems like it is about the ideal balance.
Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Employees are equally free to "screw over" companies by terminating their employment at any time; at-will is a two-way street. That seems like a fair and faithful manifestation of a free market. Health care and insurance is also available without an employer, at least in the US.
In, say, Germany, are employees bound to stay with a company until the conclusion of some contract, or are they free to move at will while the employer must retain them? I think most people in the US arguing for employee protections are assuming the latter, but I'm curious how it actually works in Europe.
In Finland there are fixed-term and permanent contracts. Fixed-term ones are extremely hard to terminate one sidely for both parties (excluding separate terms in the contract like probation period). Permanent contracts require certain amount of notice by default. Employees notice period is 14 days if contract has lasted less than 5 years, 1 month otherwise. Employer's notice period are: 14 days if contract has lasted less than a year, 1 month for 1-4 years, 2 months for 4-8 years, 4 months for 8-12 years and 6 months for over 12 years.
Contract and CBA can affect these. The only restrictions law has is that employee's notice period cannot be longer than employer's and that the maximum is 6 months, but CBA can set minimums. The CBAs that I have read set those law's default notice periods as the minimum. Vast majority (I believe about 80-85%) of employees in Finland are covered by some CBA.