Earlier quoted context omitted.
The human brain is the only thing we can conclusively say does run a general intelligence, so, its the level of complexity at which we can say confidently that its just a software/architecture problem. There may be (almost certainly is) a more optimized way a general intelligence could be implemented, but we can't confidentally say what that requires.
> The human brain is the only thing we can conclusively say does run a general intelligence That's because we define "general intelligence" circularly as "something the human brain does."
Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
101–110 of 115 posts
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean? By that same logic humans definitionally already have done everything they can or will do with technology. I believe AGI must be definitionally superior. Anything else and you could argue it’s existed for a while, e.g. computers have been superior at adding numbers basically their entire existence. Even with reasoning, computers have been better for a while. Language models have allowed for that rea…
The comparison of the accomplishments of one entity versus the entirety of humanity is needlessly high. Imagine if we could duplicate everything humans could do but it required specialized AIs, (airplane pilot AI, software engineer AI, chemist AI, etc). That world would be radically different than the one we know and it doesn't reach your bar. So, in that sense it's a misplaced benchmark.
Then those AIs aren't generally intelligences, as you said they are specialized.
Note that a set of AIs is still an AI, so AI should always be compared to groups of humans and not a single human. Since the AI needs to replace groups of humans and not individuals, very few workplaces has individual humans doing tasks alone without talking to coworkers.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think history has shown us that we tend to underestimate the rate of technological progress and it's rate of acceleration. It's also been overestimated tons of times. Look at some of the predictions from the past. It's been a complete crap-shoot. Many things have changed significantly less than people have predicted, or in significantly different ways, or significantly more. Just because things are accelerating g…
> What's the point of establishing an expensive moon colony when we've got a perfectly functional planet right here? I think this is the big difference between what you're describing and AI. AI already exists, unlike a moon colony, so we're talking about pushing something forward vs. creating brand new things. It's also pretty well established that it's got tremendous economic value, which means that in our capitalis…
That was really my point: you can't really predict what the future will bring based on what we can do today. People were extrapolating from "we've got fancy rockets and space satellites" to "moon base" in the past, and now they're extrapolating from "GPT-4" to "GPT-5 will replace $thing soon" and even "major step towards AGI". I don't think you can make that assumption.
I'm also somewhat skeptical on the economic value, but that's a long argument I don't have time to expand on right now, and this margin is too narrow to contain it.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
To borrow a phrase from Microsoft's history, "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish." AI proves to be incredibly useful and we welcome it like we welcomed the internet. It becomes deeply embedded in our lives and eventually in our bodies. One day, a generation is born that never experiences a thought that is not augmented by AI. Sometime later a generation is born that is more AI than human. Sometime later, there are no humans…
People wouldn't even get a vaccine injection because there were supposedly Bill Gates's microchips in them. Now you expect they'll be flocking to get these because they have Bill Gates's microchips in them? Actually, I could see that happening. Maybe it's time to give AGI a chance to run things anyway and see if it can do any better. Certainly it isn't a very high bar.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We can't even simulate all of the chemical processes inside a single cell. We don't even know all of the chemical processes. We don't know the function of most proteins. Brain > Cell > Molecules(DNA and otherwise) > Atoms > Sub-atomic particles... Potentially dumb question, but how deeply do we need to understand the underlying components to simulate a flatworm brain?
Who knows! I'm sure it depends on how accurately you want to simulate a flatworm brain. I think current AI research has shown that simply representing a brain as a neural network (e.g. fully connected, simple neurons) is not sufficient for AGI.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
What kind of best case are you imagining? I don't quite understand why the very best case would be dystopian.
I believe the best case scenario is one where humans have all of our needs met and all jobs are replaced with AI. Money becomes pointless and we live in a post-scarcity society. The world is powered by clean energy and we become net-zero carbon. Life becomes pointless with nothing to strive toward or struggle against. Humans spend their lives consuming media and entertaining ourselves like the people in Wall-E. A tru…
Happiness is always fleeting. Aren't our lives a bit dystopian already if we need to do work and for what reason? So that we can possibly feel like we are meaningful with hopes that we don't lose our ability to be useful.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#107Very interesting, especially the huge jump forward in the first figure and a possible majority of AI researchers giving >10% to the Human Extinction outcome. To AI skeptics bristling at these numbers, I’ve got a potentially controversial question: what’s the difference between this and the scientific consensus on Climate Change? Why heed the latter and not the former?
There's also the possibility of a AGI being benevolent or, what i find more likely, suicidal.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#108I got this survey; for the record I didn't respond. I don't think their results are meaningful at all. Asking random AI researchers about automating a field they have no idea about means nothing. What do I know about the job of a surgeon? My opinion on how current models can automate a job I don't understand is worthless. Asking random AI researchers about automation outside of their area of expertise is also worthle…
Idle curiosity, but what NLP tools evaluate translation quality better than a person? I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that NLP tools would be designed to approximate human intuition on this.
Their results are also highly biased. Most senior researchers aren't going to waste their time filling this out (90% of people did not fill it out). They almost certainly got very junior people and those with an axe to grind. Many of the respondents also have a conflict of interest, they run AI startups.
The survey does address the points above a bit. Per Section 5.2.2 and Appendix D, the survey had a response rate of 15% overall and of ~10% among people with over 1000 citations. Respondents who had given "when HLMI [more or less AGI] will be developed" or "impacts of smarter-than-human machines" a "great deal" of thought prior to the survey were 7.6% and 10.3%, respectively. Appendix D indicates that they saw no large differences between industry and academic respondents besides response rate, which was much lower for people in industry.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#109I got this survey; for the record I didn't respond. I don't think their results are meaningful at all. Asking random AI researchers about automating a field they have no idea about means nothing. What do I know about the job of a surgeon? My opinion on how current models can automate a job I don't understand is worthless. Asking random AI researchers about automation outside of their area of expertise is also worthle…
Thank you for this comment. It is great to hear an inside take. Idle curiosity, but what NLP tools evaluate translation quality better than a person? I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that NLP tools would be designed to approximate human intuition on this. Their results are also highly biased. Most senior researchers aren't going to waste their time filling this out (90% of people did not fill it out). Th…
This is a long story. But, your take on this question is what the average person who responded to that survey knows. And it shows you really how little the results mean. Here are some minutia that really matter:
1. Even if you measure quality with people in the loop. What do you ask people? Here's a passage in English, one in French, do you agree? Rate it out of 10? Turns out people aren't calibrated at all to give reasonable ratings, you get basically junk results if you run this experiment.
2. You can ask people to do head to head experiments. Do you like translation A more than translation B? But.. what criteria should they use? Is accuracy what matters most? Is it how would they translate? Is it how well A or B reads? Is it how well it represents the form of the source? Or the ideas of the source?
3. Are we measuring sentences? Paragraphs? Pages? 3 word sentences "give me grool" are pretty easy. 3 page translations get tricky. Now you want to represent something about the style of the writer. Or to realize that they're holding something back. For example, it can be really obvious in French that I'm holding back someone's gender, but not obvious at all in English. What about customs? Taboos? Do we even measure 3 pages worth of translation in our NLP corpora? The respondents have no idea.
4. There are even domain-specific questions about translations. Do you know how to evaluate English to French in the context of a contract? One that goes from common law to civil law? No way. You need to translate ideas now, not just words. How about medical translation? Most translation work is highly technical like this.
I could go on. Mostly we don't even measure minutia about translations or domain-specific translation in our NLP benchmarks because the tools aren't good enough for that. Nor do we measure 5 page translations for their fidelity.
We actually mostly don't measure translations using humans at all! We collect translations from humans and then we compare machine translations to human translations after the fact, with something called parallel corpora (the historical example is the Hansard corpus; which is the proceedings of the Canadian parliament that are manually translated in English and French; the EU has also been a boon for translation research).
I'm scratching the surface here. Translation is a really complicated topic. My favourite book related to this is the Dictionary of Untranslatables https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691138701/di... Not something you'd read end-to-end but a really fun reference to dip into once in a while.
If someone who knows about these issues wants to say that there will be human-level translation AI in 10 years, ok, fine I'm willing to buy that. But if someone who is ignorant of all of this is trying to tell me that there will be human level AI for translation in 10 years, eh, they just don't know what they're talking about. I am by the way a translation visitor, I've published in the area, but I'm not an expert at all, I don't even trust my opinion on the subject of when it will be automated.
About biases, I saw appendix A and D.
Seniority doesn't mean >1000 citations. There are master's students with 1000 citations in junk journals who happened to get a paper in a better venue. Number of citations is not an indication of anything.
The way they count academia vs industry is meaningless. There are plenty of people who have an affiliation to a university but are primarily at a startup. There are plenty of people who are minor coauthors on a paper, or even faculty who are mostly interested in making money off of the AI hype. There are plenty of people who graduated 3 years ago, this is a wrap-up of their work, they counted as academic in the survey, but now they're in industry. etc.
Re: Thousands of AI Authors on the Future of AI
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The human brain is the only thing we can conclusively say does run a general intelligence That's because we define "general intelligence" circularly as "something the human brain does."
If something else could replace humanity at intellectual tasks we would say it is generally intelligent as well. Currently there is no such thing, we still need humanity to perform intellectual tasks.