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Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

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Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#101

Post by tasty_freeze »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #100
tasty_freeze wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that there was no vaccine for about a year, during which millions of people were infected, many dying and many more left with long COVID symptoms. There is no need to scapegoat vaccines for causing these problems.

There isn't any interest in this control group?

I generally don't like to pretend I can read minds, but it seems unlikely you needed my comment to know there are unvaccinated people. The comment I'm replying to know seems pretty coy, a "just asking questions" defense.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#102

Post by feoren »

Zelphyr wrote: post #85
feoren wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure can, right after you give me concrete evidential examples that refute the Time Cube guy. The reason people don't bother to refute bullshit-on-their-face claims is because it takes 20x more effort to refute a bullshit claim than to make one in the first place, and it's absolutely pointless to argue with a hack who never intended to base his argument on evidence anyway. The best thing to do with these guys is comp…

I'm not saying you're wrong in your view of Dr. Palmer. I can see this is a subject that you have strong feelings about but, unfortunately, you've given me nothing to work with. I'm earnestly trying to understand another side of his claims, which is why I asked for more concrete evidence. I had not heard of "the Time Cube guy" before but a quick search brings up a lot of conspiracy theories. However, I don't see what…

I think my quoted passage says everything it needs to say (emphasis mine):

> which apply to all mental disorders, including anxiety, depression, ADHD, alcoholism, eating disorders, bipolar disorder, autism, and even schizophrenia

All mental disorders!? That is not the kind of claim anyone with a real discovery has ever made. Everyone who claims that their discovery could cure everything in that list is a huckster. He's claiming that mitochondrial issues cause everything that can ever go wrong with the brain! He's simply casting aside the possibility that any of these conditions could be caused by any of the dozens of causes that we know are associated with various cognitive decline (even if there isn't a simple causal link to any specific mental disorder):

* Lead, mercury, or other heavy meatal poisoning

* Neurotransmitter deficiencies or reuptake problems

* Infection and auto-immune issues

* Blood flow issues

* Prions

* Cell death from toxic substances (e.g. huffing paint)

* Problems with myelin sheathing

* Problems cleaning junk out of CSF

The list goes on and on. No, screw all that, every other scientist on the planet is wrong: it's just this guy's one thing that he found that causes all mental disorders. Maybe he'd say "ok but lead poisoning is actually damaging the mitochondria, so I'm still right!" but that's at best moving the goal posts, and at worst obviously wrong: toxic metals damage everything. Other scientists have studied lead poisoning, and the main problem seems to be its action on myelin sheathing, not on mitochondria. Most of this stuff has no causal relationship with mitochondrial damage at all. You have to completely disregard almost the entire body of neuroscience to make the claims he's making.

The list of "all mental disorders" is so vast, so complicated, so nuanced, that we can't even agree on what something like schizophrenia even is. We're talking about the brain: the most complicated system in the known universe. It's not all caused by this one guy's pet theory.

Anyone who comes out of the gate with "Einstein was wrong! Perpetual motion machines! The rest of the world is lying!" can be completely ignored. This guy may not be explicitly claiming that every other scientist who studies the brain is wrong, but they are implicitly claiming that.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#103

Post by croes »

reify wrote: post #89

As with any of this research into long covid, it feels deceptive to me. Where is the clarity and consice exacting standards that we are supposed to be in awe of in the scientific community Why is there no mention of whether or not the test subjects had been vaccinated. How do we know that the vaccine did not cause the same symptoms? Surely, only then, could we, I mean I, put this thinking to bed and move on. For bala…

How many vaccinated people without Corona infection have Long-Covid?

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#104

Post by remarkEon »

francisofascii wrote: post #68
remarkEon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the fitness level of people suffering from the more extreme cases of "long covid"? As in, are they overweight and unhealthy in other ways? Because if that is the case the issue isn't the virus, it's the general health of that population in the first place. That's my gripe about this discussion, because I can never tell, since all I get is anecdotes, if this is a result that's agnostic to body type/fitness. Do…

Just anecdotal, but there are many fit, marathon runners that have suffered from this, myself included. I had LC for five agonizing months. I think it was because I tried running through some of the mild symptoms that caused me to get this. I don't think I lost my overall fitness, but rather my muscles/cells, etc. lost its ability process oxygen properly. Once I got "better", my ability to run fast returned quickly,…

Again, anecdotal, but your story checks out in that fit people who have described LC symptoms are almost always distance runners or very overweight. I'm really curious if there's something there and if the correlation to body-type exists at the tails for some reason.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#105

Post by hirako2000 »

alpaca128 wrote: post #59
hirako2000 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because covid 19 has been accompanied with an avalanche of commenting along with draconian measures that we haven't seen for at least an entire generation.

Other illnesses still existed during the lockdowns and various other health conditions have forced people to be as isolated for years in the past. Many people got mental problems like depression but no long covid during the pandemic.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to see the point in my comment.

My argument is that the level of fear inducing information surrounding most people on the planet, associated with covid, was nowhere comparable to fear inducing info associated with any disease and their potentially correlated (or not correlated) potential psychological side effects.

By saying this I'm not claiming that long covid is caused by a psychological side effect of a/ having been infected and b/ the information and fear induced state most people fell into and/or c/ other complex compounded side affects of the measures put in place to fight the pandemic: loss of income, job, sense of safety, isolation and containment driving our minds pretty sick

I'm saying it could be hence finding correlation between covid infection and longer than short term symptoms described in many independent observation MAY be a red herring

Last, an over simplified illustration:

- put, furtively some toxine in food and 1000 consume it. - 800, let's say. get sick then recover entirely in the short term.

- put, some toxin in food, followed by massive information campaigns, hammering everyone day in and out of the presence of a toxin in food, then lock everyone up, have 200 lose their job, lose contact with their closed ones, etc etc - 200, let's say, global knowledge some food was contaminated didn't help an ounce to reduce their consumption, get sick. - 20, let's say, don't fully recover short term and are left with what we would call "long toxin consumption syndrome", suffering various side effects.

And we have research insisting they are seeing correlation between a toxin and long term side effects. Ignoring the social, economical and psychological very potential effect/contribution to these longer term symptoms, I find flagrant lack of hollistic view to phenomenon often lacking scientific researchers.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#106

Post by Thiez »

docfort wrote: post #33
blindriver wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to be “terrified” about. You are conflating different types of “long covid”. Some covid infections, just like the cold or the flu, cause symptoms longer than the 5-7 days, maybe for 2-3 weeks. That’s long covid. Also remember that long covid symptoms include symptoms like depression and it ends up not being very rigorously defined. Then there is the version that creates long term chronic fatigue symp…

I think that for people without enough paid sick leave (maybe especially in the US), being knocked out for 2-3 weeks with a virus that is more infectious than flu is an event causing long term damage to their life. Especially with the repeal of many COVID-safety protocols at companies because of social pressure.

That is a US problem though, not a COVID problem. Go vote for paid sick leave.

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#107

Post by hirako2000 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #58
hirako2000 wrote: post #41

Are we still trying to find some direct physical correlation betwee the symptoms of "long covid" and the virus infection itself? Such symptoms occuring are unsurprising given the psychological effect of the pandemic at its height, its societal and economical effects. Adding to this getting infected and all the fanfare, along with fear mongering we've been subject to via the media and mandates, long covid could alone…

The direct physical correlation is here, right in front of you, and this is your reaction?

Yes it is my reaction off the post. I challenge it and posted a couple of cousin comments to argumen. What more can I say, happy to be proven wrong, until then

Re: Researchers discover physical cause of long Covid tiredness

#108

Post by Zelphyr »

feoren wrote: post #102
Zelphyr wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying you're wrong in your view of Dr. Palmer. I can see this is a subject that you have strong feelings about but, unfortunately, you've given me nothing to work with. I'm earnestly trying to understand another side of his claims, which is why I asked for more concrete evidence. I had not heard of "the Time Cube guy" before but a quick search brings up a lot of conspiracy theories. However, I don't see what…

I think my quoted passage says everything it needs to say (emphasis mine): > which apply to all mental disorders , including anxiety, depression, ADHD, alcoholism, eating disorders, bipolar disorder, autism, and even schizophrenia All mental disorders!? That is not the kind of claim anyone with a real discovery has ever made. Everyone who claims that their discovery could cure everything in that list is a huckster. H…

That’s what I was looking for. Thank you.
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