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Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

marginalrevolution.com

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Re: Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

#101
post #54

> How much better he was than his contemporaries. Define better; Bach wasn’t appreciated that much when he was alive. Only later we decided that his works are the bees knees. “Throughout the 18th century, Bach was primarily valued as an organist, while his keyboard music, such as The Well-Tempered Clavier, was appreciated for its didactic qualities.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach

That is total BS. How would we even know that if it were true? Do you remember being instructed not to cite wikipedia as a source?

Do you have a source? I.e. one that shows the Wikipedia quote is incorrect?

Re: Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Beatles are vastly overrated and will die off with the boomers.

Can you quantify this assessment? What are the dimensions?

They can't. It's a pizza cutter comment. All edge and no point.

Re: Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

#103
post #54

> How much better he was than his contemporaries. Define better; Bach wasn’t appreciated that much when he was alive. Only later we decided that his works are the bees knees. “Throughout the 18th century, Bach was primarily valued as an organist, while his keyboard music, such as The Well-Tempered Clavier, was appreciated for its didactic qualities.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach

That is total BS. How would we even know that if it were true? Do you remember being instructed not to cite wikipedia as a source?

You could respond a little less aggressively.

This guy isn’t writing a thesis, he’s posting an internet comment.

Re: Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Beatles are vastly overrated and will die off with the boomers.

Can you quantify this assessment? What are the dimensions?

They're a bunch of nice pop songs that came from an era where strong label control meant little creativity. Sure they defeated this system, but it's not like this is some grand revolution.

Take Led Zeppelin, who basically spawned an entire subgenre of rock and roll. What genre did the Beatles spawn? What new vibe or style did they introduce? Just a bunch of pop songs. Even their druggie stuff really isn't that great.

In terms of sophistication, is it any of the classical masters? No. It was remarkable given the desert of creativity it appeared in. Are they better than Jazz masters or the like? I'd say no.

Were the Beatles at the forefront of leading a cultural revolution, a fundamental political shift? Sure they were part of the hippy culture, but are the associated with strident antiwar, communal living, or extreme free love? There are many other 60s acts you can point to as more influential.

Christ, even U2 has a more coherent origin story and central focus around antiwar and activism, as bubble gum as their variant is.

The tension in the band isn't even interesting. Just people making bank from pop success and arguing over attribution. The schisms were bland, not even really about ideology. Just ... credit.

When I hear them now on the radio, when I hear them on the radio, it's not like I change the station, but I don't turn up the volume. In the end, they are a pop band that sold a lot of records. Ok, maybe I turn it up for Elenor Rigby, but just a bit.

Re: Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

#105

isn't jesus the obvious answer? or is religion cheating?

Not cheating, but there isn't a good argument from the given criteria: 1. Quality of work. 2. How much better he was than his contemporaries. 3. How much he stayed the very best in subsequent centuries. 4. Quantity of work. 5. Peaks. 6. Consistency of work and achievement. 7. How many other problems he had to solve to succeed with his achievement. 8. Ending up so great that he could learn only from himself. 9. Never…

[deleted]

Re: Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

#106
post #98
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, between Bach and Mendelssohn, baroque music had been out of fashion for a century. Mendelssohn revived interest in Bach's music. Doesn't mean Bach wasn't renowned in his own time.

Yes, that's a good point. It's hard to remember how long ago he was writing, until you think about stuff like the well tempered clavier, where being able to play in all keys on the same instrument is seen as a modern marvel. We are now so used to equal temperament that the compromised intervals sound normal to us, whilst they would have sounded wrong to them.

The major sub-periods of the Common Practice Period are roughly

* Baroque c. 1600–1750 – Pachelbel, Purcell, Albinoni, Telemann, Bach, Händel, Vivaldi

* Classical c. 1730–1820 – Haydn, Mozart, Salieri, Beethoven, Schubert, as well as Bach's sons C.P.E. Bach and J.C. Bach

* Romantic c. 1800–1910 – Strauss, Wagner, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Liszt, Dvořák, Tchaikowsky, Grieg, Sibelius

with quite a bit of overlap, of course – for example Beethoven and Schubert were both influential figures in the Classical–Romantic transition.

Re: Is Bach the greatest achiever of all time?

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is total BS. How would we even know that if it were true? Do you remember being instructed not to cite wikipedia as a source?

You could respond a little less aggressively. This guy isn’t writing a thesis, he’s posting an internet comment.

You are right. I regret the language that I used, which was unnecessarily hostile.

Sorry for adding negativity :/

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