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US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

theguardian.com

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Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#101

Post by Incipient »

legitster wrote: post #29
bwb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.

> That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years What a crazy conspiracy theory. It assumes electric companies and appliance makers do no marketing of their own. Gas cooking is obviously a more luxurious experience and anyone who says otherwise has not tried to make a hollandaise sauce on each.

Don't you make a hollandaise sauce with a double boiler type approach? So shouldn't that really make the heat source even less relevant? As you lift the inner bowl to adjust cooking temp?

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#102

Post by bsder »

ska wrote: post #44
bsder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On old school electric. Induction is way better for control and latency than gas. The only issue is if you need to genuinely ignite something (like in wok cooking--but, then, get a blowtorch--if it's good enough for J. Kenji Lopez-Alt it's good enough for you). One real problem is that the standalone induction burners are only 110V in the US and that hamstrings them dramatically. Induction cooktops, however, do not s…

Agree induction is pretty great, although it limits cookware and still doesn't work for all techniques (blowtorch doesn't replace everything). And you are right that the 110V are underpowered. The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar. From what I've seen europe is still way ahead on induction offerings, but it seems to be getting better. I'd probably lean…

> The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar.

However, I find that gas has no granularity at the lowest settings. Induction has like 4 or 5 settings below the minimum setting of gas. This is really great for melting or softening things.

Maybe this is different on a professional gas stove, but I've never used one of those.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#103

Post by adrianN »

ttt3ts wrote: post #84
jeffbee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a policy choice. There's no law of physics that makes an electric heat pump cost more.

Actually it is physics and the market https://www.statista.com/statistics/220174/total-us-electric... a huge percentage of us electrical power is from natural gas. Natural gas to electricity to heat is a lot less efficient.

A modern gas turbine is around 50% efficient, give or take 10%. A modern heat pump has a COP of around 4, so burning gas to make electricity to run a heat pump is more efficient than burning gas to make heat.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#104

Post by encoderer »

JohnFen wrote: post #91
encoderer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to be careful about super heated water and flash boiling.

Most consumer microwaves have a turntable in them, which eliminates that problem. That's one of the reasons why most consumer microwaves have a turntable.

No? I don’t think that’s true? I think it’s based on the shapes of the container and how long you zap it n

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#105

Post by shiroiuma »

TheBlight wrote: post #18
andrewxdiamond wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For water heating specifically, get an electric kettle. They are optimized for boiling water, much faster than gas OR induction on a stove.

Microwave works pretty good too.

No, they really don't. Microwave ovens are horribly inefficient. I've consistently found a kettle is much faster.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#106

Post by oliwarner »

simonsarris wrote: post #25
bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote? The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more powe…

That's still not a complete picture.

That 18K BTU of gas is heat under and around the pan. Most of it licks around the sides and up into the room. It's 30-40% efficient.

Induction coils are 85% efficient. 85% of your 12K BTU is heat energy in the fabric of the pan.

You certainly can get very very hot burner rings. They're commercial units usually. But they're wasting so much energy.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#107

Post by Kirby64 »

legitster wrote: post #75
Kirby64 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you… dropping cast iron cookware on the stove? I don’t know any recipe that would require some movement that would damage a glass cooktop. Cast iron cookware seems to scratch glass tops over time, but that doesn’t seem to crack or damage them (unless you drop something on it, of course).

I've got a large 15lb enamel dutch oven. If I am doing any sort of speedy operation where I have to scrape off crusted ingredients, I might do some real clattering about. I have some real good chicken curry recipes where I do this. It's also worth noting that certain things like home canning might actually void the warranty of your glass cooktop. The extreme weight put on them during the process can actually put more…

I can't speak to home canning, but again unless you're dropping cookware I don't see how rocking cookware violently back and forth is going to damage a glass top. Scratch it, sure, but not destroy it.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#108

Post by RetpolineDrama »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #99
RetpolineDrama wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it should be individual choice depending on your own personal situation. Your average individual is completely unequipped to make an informed decision on this topic. They have no idea their crappy gas stove is spewing high volumes of carcinogens and other nasty things into their kitchen. We do the same thing for toys, my wife should be able to buy my child a toy at the store without having to bring an XRF gun to loo…

So, either your comparison is false equivalence or lead is way safer than it has been made out to be and probably deserves less restriction, because gas ranges are not default unsafe.

>because gas ranges are not default unsafe.

They are in fact unsafe by default in basically every metric. In a brand new one spews toxic byproducts into your home, which for most people lacks the ventilation to remove it.

It also comes with the fun side effect of blowing up dozens of houses per year, being environmentally wasteful, and being inferior to induction for cooking.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#109

Post by snapplebobapple »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #108
snapplebobapple wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, either your comparison is false equivalence or lead is way safer than it has been made out to be and probably deserves less restriction, because gas ranges are not default unsafe.

>because gas ranges are not default unsafe. They are in fact unsafe by default in basically every metric. In a brand new one spews toxic byproducts into your home, which for most people lacks the ventilation to remove it. It also comes with the fun side effect of blowing up dozens of houses per year, being environmentally wasteful, and being inferior to induction for cooking.

It's code here to have ventilation and usually make up air for gas ranges, so maybe your area just sucks when it comes to building codes?

It's kind of amusing citing dozens of homes blowing up from gas when NFPA has just a bit under 50,000 electrical fires in homes in the USA due to electrical failure/malfunction each year with ~400 deaths and ~1400 injuries with ~1.5 billion in damages each year. If you add in electrical failure of lighting and distribution equipment in the home you slightly more than double the deaths, and 1.8X the other numbers each year....

Again, it's not inferior to induction cooking, it's better in many ways, but it's really personal preference and people should be allowed to make those choices themselves (as I said, I personally choose induction but I get why people like gas and recognize the ways in which it is superior, as well as the drawbacks).

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#110

Post by thsksbd »

Kirby64 wrote: post #69
thsksbd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on electric, and Im looking to switch from my current gas to induction. Mostly for safety reasons - I don't like open flames. So Im about as biased against gas as possible. Electric heating elements suck. They take an appreciable time to warm up, they stay warm long after forcing the cook to adjust accordingly. Also, only gas can really work with woks, but I don't use woks so that's a non issue. If the powe…

Glass topped electric (induction or not) beats gas in cleaning every time imo. You take a razor blade and some scrubbing solution and you can actually clean it fully. Gas stovetops have nooks and crannies that get gross and are much more difficult to fully clean. I dread cleaning my gas stovetop.

I find the scrapping sound jarring. Also, I'm not convinced of the (material) toughness of glass top. A heavy laden iron skillet is shatter poison for glass top.

That being said, I'll accept glass top to get induction. Arrest i won't have to scrape.

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