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Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

pandodaily.com

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Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#101

Post by emmelaich »

m0nty wrote: post #18
uvdiv wrote: post #13

Let's built a future with 300mph self-driving supercars and mach 20 spaceplanes -- addressing the actual desires and wants of most users (mobility, convenience) rather than imposing personal ethics of asceticism (mass transit, anti-urbanization). The author brings up a lot of valid problems with contemporary car travel (and notably none of its revolutionary advantages), but most of these orthogonal to the personal-vs…

> "ban cars" I must have missed the bit where he said that. I thought he was saying that we could find better solutions.

Then the article would be better titled a future that "doesn't need cars" than one "without cars".

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#102

Post by v21 »

read_wharf wrote: post #71
v21 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the case in large part because your environment is optimized for driving. For me to get a car, I'd have to pay a fair bit more in rent to have somewhere to park, and I still wouldn't be able to drive to work (there's nowhere to park). And even if I could I'd have to pay £9 a day to enter the city. (Congestion charge zone, in London). But all of central, and lots of not-so-central London is within an hour's…

I envy you your tube, and I'd be up in that every day if we had one.

Hey, actually I moved so I could walk into work every morning. It takes me 20 minutes.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#103

Post by emmelaich »

jQueryIsAwesome wrote: post #24

Cars are one of the worst inventions by human kind. Aside from the points mentioned in the article there is also many deaths by cars (traffic accidents) and the huge amount of cars now days tend to saturate the roads and make mobilization a really slow process. My solution would be to get rid of cars all together an use only electrical trains driven by few professionals who are less likely to cause accidents; with fi…

I love comparing your comment to http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3872044 (kaiju: I love cars...)

IMNSHO, Your comment is imbued with a moral view and assumptions about what cars have to be that makes it hard to advance the discussion.

You can solve most of the problems of cars if you have small lightweight automatic cars that are optionally drivable (outside certain areas/roads)

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#104

Post by trothamel »

fiddly_bits wrote: post #92
donw wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've done a great job of summing up one of the reasons that public transit in the US is as bad as it is. My goal is to safely get from Point A to Point B, and I don't want to spend a lot of time waiting around at Point A, or sitting and waiting on the way to Point B. We have three goals here, in order of importance. Let's call them safety, convenience, and speed. Taking a bus with a bunch of drunken hooligans doesn…

You have many of the same observations as me, but form a different conclusion. Although, one thing: you say, "My goal is to safely get from Point A to Point B..." Cars are a great way to kill 30 or 40 thousand people a year. Not very safe. And the quality of service (and riders) will surely improve on public transportation as more people use it, don't you think? Japan seems to prove that.

While trains appear to be slightly safer, the difference isn't that big, at least here in the US.

According to http://www.transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/publications/sso/CRS... , commuter rail kills .09 people per 10 million passenger miles.

According to http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx , cars kill 1.14 people per 100 million passenger miles - or .114 people per 10 million passenger miles.

That's not a huge difference - I actually wonder if the more direct routing and door-to-door service allowed by cars could make up that difference entirely.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#106

Post by rowanwernham »

As much as I respect Peter Theil I think this whole 'where are the flying cars' thing is a dead end.

Its essentially a futuristic projection of the 1950's, a time when no-one had any idea things like the internet would exist.

Imagining a society around transportation needs is redundant. Commuting is rooted in an era where cities grew around industrial activity that made the environment unpleasant (as opposed to the country / suburbs) hence the desire to travel between the two.

Vehicle emissions aside this isn't so true anymore.

Communications technology changes the way we think about distance, its much less necessary for most workers to group in the same space.

I think the future is about local communities / neighborhoods, remote working via the internet (from home or from mixed co-working spaces), and better public transport between districts and nodes such as airports.

The internet is going to continue to radically transform our society in ways we can barely imagine - and I don't really see why flying cars need to be part of that future (although recreational jetpacks would be fun:) )

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#107

Post by _delirium »

trothamel wrote: post #104
fiddly_bits wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have many of the same observations as me, but form a different conclusion. Although, one thing: you say, "My goal is to safely get from Point A to Point B..." Cars are a great way to kill 30 or 40 thousand people a year. Not very safe. And the quality of service (and riders) will surely improve on public transportation as more people use it, don't you think? Japan seems to prove that.

While trains appear to be slightly safer, the difference isn't that big, at least here in the US. According to http://www.transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/publications/sso/CRS... , commuter rail kills .09 people per 10 million passenger miles. According to http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx , cars kill 1.14 people per 100 million passenger miles - or .114 people per 10 million passenger miles. That's not a hug…

> commuter rail kills .09 people per 10 million passenger miles.

The non-suicide number is quite a bit lower, though, by (probably) an order of magnitude. Pedestrians on the tracks in an area they aren't supposed to be, who are struck and killed by trains, are classified in the bucket category of "trespasser" fatalities. Unless they left a note or something it's usually impossible to conclusively say that they were suicides, but the assumption is that the vast majority of trespasser fatalities are suicides, because the number of people struck while trying to steal things or take illegal shortcuts is relatively small. And, trespasser fatalities account for 88% of total commuter-rail fatalities (p. 13 in that report). All other commuter-rail fatalities (passengers, collisions with automobiles, etc.) add up to 0.011 people per 10 million passenger miles.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#108

Post by joshmlewis »

kfcm wrote: post #33

The "let's get rid or substantially reduce cars" crowd often is comprised of those who live in cities, and have no understanding of the indispensability of cars in rural areas. Work, shopping, some level of school, advanced medical, are often in one of the next towns 10-15 miles over, with your town having one of those as an anchor. And notice I said "one of the next towns over". Stuff isn't necessarily concentrated…

This is a really, really good point. I live in a town in the south and like most southern towns public transit is just emerging or non-existent. From my apartment complex on an interstate to downtown where I work is around 17 miles at 60mph. The way roads and interstates are setup it's almost impossible for public transit to be possible. When I travel to SF or Boston its an odd but fun traveling experience. Back home it just doesn't work. I enjoy my Mustang and my commute to work.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#109

Post by trothamel »

_delirium wrote: post #107
trothamel wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While trains appear to be slightly safer, the difference isn't that big, at least here in the US. According to http://www.transit-safety.volpe.dot.gov/publications/sso/CRS... , commuter rail kills .09 people per 10 million passenger miles. According to http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx , cars kill 1.14 people per 100 million passenger miles - or .114 people per 10 million passenger miles. That's not a hug…

> commuter rail kills .09 people per 10 million passenger miles. The non-suicide number is quite a bit lower, though, by (probably) an order of magnitude. Pedestrians on the tracks in an area they aren't supposed to be, who are struck and killed by trains, are classified in the bucket category of "trespasser" fatalities. Unless they left a note or something it's usually impossible to conclusively say that they were s…

The way I'm reading table 18, of the 526 commuter-rail fatalities, at most 285 of them are suicide-by-train. As you point out, trespassing is a wide category - it includes things like highway-rail collisions. That 285 number might be high, as it also includes things like a child straying onto the tracks that was hit by a train.

I'm not sure it matters. The automobile statistics seem to include various methods of suicide involving cars. If rail inspires suicide, that's a safety problem.

Re: Let’s Build a Future Without Cars

#110

Post by virmundi »

uvdiv wrote: post #13

Let's built a future with 300mph self-driving supercars and mach 20 spaceplanes -- addressing the actual desires and wants of most users (mobility, convenience) rather than imposing personal ethics of asceticism (mass transit, anti-urbanization). The author brings up a lot of valid problems with contemporary car travel (and notably none of its revolutionary advantages), but most of these orthogonal to the personal-vs…

I agree with you. One thing that I have a problem with making everyone move to public transit is my IBS. I loath driving the way it is because of that, but I can at least pull over to a McDonald's or a gas station. It would be horrific to have to hold it on even the cleanest, fastest bus.

I don't even drive non-family member to a local lunch because of my problem. So I really would be a shut in if I had to go places by bus.

On the plus side, there could be a new client for an eco-friendly home food delivery service if they moved to such a system.

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