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The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

nytimes.com

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Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#101

Post by rayiner »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #89
rayiner wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What state are you from? January 6 didn’t register for me at all, and I grew up in the area and work in DC. I grew up in Virginia, with a very Jefferson heavy curriculum. “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants,” and whatnot. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

Whose blood exactly is it refreshed with? Also maybe let’s break that toxic cycle instead of continuing it

“Patriots and tyrants.” It’s right in the quote.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#102

Post by nec4b »

dctoedt wrote: post #99
nec4b wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean without evidence? You are contesting BLM has leadership? They have a website, you can check it out. Regarding the democratic party support, there are a lot of videos from cnn and other networks interviews where visible member give their support to BLM.

You're painting with a broad brush: "BLM" ≠ "rioting." EDIT: From a 2020 Trump Administration report: "President Donald Trump has blamed leftwing extremist groups for instigating nights of looting and violence in cities across the United States, but an intelligence assessment offers limited evidence that organized extremists are behind the turmoil. [¶] In part of a June 1 internal intelligence assessment of the prote…

>> You're painting with a broad brush: "BLM" ≠ "rioting."

And you don't see yourself doing the same to the "other" side?

>> but an intelligence assessment offers limited evidence that organized extremists are behind the turmoil

"limited evidence"

If you have ever read a book about communist revolutions or by chance even lived in a a country which had a violent leftist takeover of power, you would have recognized the tactics and methods of those takeovers in BLM protests.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#103

Post by dctoedt »

nec4b wrote: post #102
dctoedt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're painting with a broad brush: "BLM" ≠ "rioting." EDIT: From a 2020 Trump Administration report: "President Donald Trump has blamed leftwing extremist groups for instigating nights of looting and violence in cities across the United States, but an intelligence assessment offers limited evidence that organized extremists are behind the turmoil. [¶] In part of a June 1 internal intelligence assessment of the prote…

>> You're painting with a broad brush: "BLM" ≠ "rioting." And you don't see yourself doing the same to the "other" side? >> but an intelligence assessment offers limited evidence that organized extremists are behind the turmoil "limited evidence" If you have ever read a book about communist revolutions or by chance even lived in a a country which had a violent leftist takeover of power, you would have recognized the…

At least one of us is delusional, and/or paranoid.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#104

Post by dctoedt »

nec4b wrote: post #102
dctoedt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're painting with a broad brush: "BLM" ≠ "rioting." EDIT: From a 2020 Trump Administration report: "President Donald Trump has blamed leftwing extremist groups for instigating nights of looting and violence in cities across the United States, but an intelligence assessment offers limited evidence that organized extremists are behind the turmoil. [¶] In part of a June 1 internal intelligence assessment of the prote…

>> You're painting with a broad brush: "BLM" ≠ "rioting." And you don't see yourself doing the same to the "other" side? >> but an intelligence assessment offers limited evidence that organized extremists are behind the turmoil "limited evidence" If you have ever read a book about communist revolutions or by chance even lived in a a country which had a violent leftist takeover of power, you would have recognized the…

> And you don't see yourself doing the same [i.e., painting with a broad brush] to the "other" side?

No — I'm making specific accusations about Donald Trump and some of his followers in and out of government.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#105

Post by wizerdrobe »

asfdgionio wrote: post #9
wizerdrobe wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you consider January 6 protests to be the turning point specifically? It was neither particularly violent nor a first regarding violation of norms. There was no attempt at rallying armed forces in a coup d’etat. Could just as well consider something like the Tea Party circa 2010 a turning point in separatism. For the modern era, at least.

>There was no attempt at rallying armed forces in a coup d’etat. What are you talking about? There most certainly was, and a successful one at that. The mob had firearms and pipe bombs and a wide variety of melee weapons. They smashed their way into the building. Rioters intended to hold lawmakers captive and planned to execute the vice president. Several people died. The sitting president led a mob to levy war again…

He called for peace and then later for the mob to leave.

A generous to the other side reading of events would be it was a suggestive display of power, that he could rally even more later. Kind of like his perfect phone call being pitched as a thinly-veiled mafioso threat.

Real coups attempts involve officers rally elements to decapitate attentive movements, leaders, non-supporters.

In no honest reality was the mob action on the Capitol anything other than a nuisance. A police department from a city the size of DC could put down a majority unarmed mob with less-than-lethal and more-than-lethal assets.

And even if the mob magically overpowers the police department, the Nasty Girls would put them down and the inauguration ceremony would proceed as normal or be ignored and Biden installed as needed.

Your anonymous account and dishonest retelling (the pipe bombs were not at the Capitol) are nothing but a thinly veiled political troll. Go away.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#106

Post by AndrewKemendo »

rayiner wrote: post #101
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose blood exactly is it refreshed with? Also maybe let’s break that toxic cycle instead of continuing it

“Patriots and tyrants.” It’s right in the quote.

Right I think implied in my question is “who decides who is who?”

Certainly the native populations and black slaves didn’t have much voice here.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#107

Post by junofan »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #106
rayiner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Patriots and tyrants.” It’s right in the quote.

Right I think implied in my question is “who decides who is who?” Certainly the native populations and black slaves didn’t have much voice here.

The natives were heavily armed and owned tons of slaves. A prevailing view was slaves were foisted on the colonists by King George III through a combination of debt and the trans-Atlantic slave trade, so a big goal of the Revolution was ending that trade. Of course Jefferson was wrong, and chattel slavery continued.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#108

Post by hackeraccount »

mempko wrote: post #85
hackeraccount wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that's not a magic fix right? If I loan you $20 and a day later you let me know it won't be paid back what will I do? Retrospectively nothing. The money's gone and I'm not getting it back. Prospectively? I'm either not lending you $20 again or I'm changing the terms of any future loan to better take care of myself. Read David Graeber’s book - it's a great chance to think through the possibilities and n…

If you had read David Graeber's book on debt, you would have known that he literally suggests the same thing, to cancel debts. A debt jubilee.

Graeber suggested that a jubilee was an answer the problem of debt. Debt isn't a problem - at worst it's a symptom and more often it's a utility.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#109

Post by umvi »

qwytw wrote: post #34
umvi wrote: post #22

Right now incentives are misaligned. Politicians have no incentive to be responsible with the money. Time to implement Warren Buffett's proposal: passing a law that says anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. This would realign incentives - politicians who seek power will need to be fiscally responsible to attain it.

> all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election Historically this was almost always a terrible idea under most circumstances. This would be even worse due to perfectly obvious reasons (just like the debt limit nonsense).

Can you give some examples? I don't see any other viable solutions. What else will motivate congress to balance the budget than threat of losing their careers?
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