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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

101–110 of 1001 posts

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#101
post #43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a highly politically charged conflict that’s mainly relevant for being a sort of rhetorical proxy conflict (see all the other conflicts going on that receive a fraction of the attention). The point of discussing this topic is to rhetorically battle. Unlike say, the current civil war in Burma or Sudan, or the Azeri-Armenian war, basically everyone who clicks on this will have an opinion that’s not, well, acade…

That is not the only point of discussing this topic, and definitely not the point of discussing it here. This follows from HN's core principle* because curiosity and battle can't be active at the same time. I agree with you about this: > everyone who clicks on this will have an opinion that’s not, well, academic let’s say ... but as I've explained elsewhere in this thread, I don't think suppressing the topic outright…

> This follows from HN's core principle* because curiosity and battle can't be active at the same time.

Does HN have a policy against epistemic soundness in claims? Because if there is a method that is maximally useful for these sorts of issues, it is disciplined epistemology. Yet, I know of no explicit policy on it, but I have been subjected to scolding for practicing it, suggesting there is an implicit policy, at least to some degree (perhaps only on some topics, who knows). Or, an error has been made....which once again is an epistemological matter.

If people refuse to even try to utilize the tools that exist, and discussion of that phenomenon is disallowed, it may not be optimal game play....and sometimes, suboptimal gameplay results in large quantities of death. Is curiosity about that a good thing?

(And yes, I do realize that the culture we've been raised in has taught us that statements like mine "are" necessarily "in bad faith", though mine is not actually.)

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#102
post #7

Just a reminder that Aljazeera is the state sponsored news of Qatar, a county that hosts Hamas leaders and is close allies with Iran. It’s not a valid news source.

I think of Al Jazeera like I think of the NY Times: it's the unofficial mouthpiece of the establishment. I apply my prior understanding of those establishments to adjust what I read into what i believe is a more factual understanding of the underlying reality.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#103

Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…

Isn't defense also supposed to be targeted against an aggressor? How could the millions of innocent civilians that Israel is displacing, destroying all their houses and belongings and killing (and maybe torturing as described in this article), be considered in any way as aggressor?

if a terrorist hid in an appartement building, and the police came, start killing all the inhabitants of the building and destroyed the building, in order to stop that terrorist, would you be wondering if that response is legitimate defense? I don't think so.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#104

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

As I wrote on September 14th, 2001, 3 days after 9/11, "Just don't act rashly".

https://groups.google.com/g/borland.public.delphi.non-techni...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#105
post #26

> “When they spoke to us in Hebrew and we wouldn’t understand, they’d beat us up,” he continues. > “They hit me in the back where my kidneys are and my legs. They took my family, and I don’t know where they are,” he says, his voice breaking. > Before they were forced inside the warehouse, Israeli female soldiers came and spat on the men, Mohammed recalls. > In the warehouse, it was common for groups of five soldiers…

Since the source is AlJazeera can you at least take these testimonies with a grain of doubt?

what's wrong with al jazeera?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#106
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would explain the factual inaccuracies that I've noticed in their reporting since the events of October. I assumed it was because of a religious ideology, but a state sponsor makes sense too.

Can you provide examples where they've been debunked?

Where it crystalized for me was watching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosio... as it happened live.

The AJ coverage: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-ha...

From reading the AJ coverage, you would believe that Israel bombed a hospital and killed hundreds. An inexcusable atrocity, obviously, if it were true.

But on Wikipedia, you can see the actual impact of the bombing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosio...

The US and Israel's story of it being a jihad rocket seems consistent with the explosion. The intelligence assessment that it was dozens not hundreds dead seems much more plausible to me.

The AJ perspective seems to be to treat Hamas claims as valid by default throughout this conflict, which I find concerning.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#107
post #2

All: if you're going to comment in this thread, please do not do so in the spirit of battle. The latter is off topic here, and the last thread HN had about this did not do well enough at keeping to the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Instead, ask first whether you can find a place of compassion in yourself before commenting. If you can't, that's understandable, but then please don'…

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#110

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

To misquote Bryan Cantrill, one should not make the mistake of anthropomorphizing Netanyahu. When a nationalist politician like him is faced with an event like this, long-term international diplomacy considerations barely enter the picture. The violence just comforted him in his previous worldviews, all he saw was that his nationalistic policies were justified and the only viable answer was to be even more of a natio…

If there as an election tomorrow in Israel, do you think the new leader would be against war? Like it or not, Hamas' actions have prompted a response from the Israeli people, a different leader wouldn't change that sentiment.
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