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DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

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Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#101
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works as a bid but only up to a certain amount, above which Dasher just shows the offer with e.g. "$6+ tip", hiding the full tip amount until after the order is delivered.

Oh wow, this is actually interesting. Out of curiosity, do you happen to know whether the threshold for hiding the full tip amount is based on a percentage of the total order cost or if it is just a flat number? I.e., “anything over $6 gets truncated to $6+” vs. “anything over 20% of the order gets truncated to ${total_order_cost*0.2}+”. Or could it be based off the 3 pre-selected options for the tip that are display…

It seems to be one of several fixed, round numbers depending on the market (city). But there may be other factors. It's an interesting policy choice and I'm curious why they do it. Needless to say, drivers very much want to know the whole tip amount and are annoyed that the displayed value is capped.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#102
post #23
post #18

The platform fees and the insane menu price markups that restaurants apply for delivery app orders have made it impractical to use Uber Eats & DoorDash for a couple years now IMO. I only ever consider using them when offered at least 50% off. Mandated minimum earnings will benefit the drivers, but that won't help drivers that have to quit the platforms because people stop using them.

They aren't really viable business models to begin with. Only VC funding can keep these online platform up.

I mean I think it can be, given that there's a $20-$30 markup per order, but it definitely requires some particular circumstances.

The bigger thing is that if you're thinking of Lean manufacturing principles or Theory of Constraints, where the goal is to get the noise out of the system, you would never maximize a business the way that Uber Eats and Doordash are. It'd instead be something like the following pipe dream:

- We sell "pizza delivery as a service" to businesses who want it -- at first we're trying to partner with Target and Walmart, etc. Our value proposition to them is "hey Amazon is eating you alive, how about we help you offer ultra-rapid delivery and the people you're working with basically become fellow trusted Target employees?" (Of course, we'd be happy to double-dip -- ideally we'd convince Amazon that we're a cheaper way to reach their customers than their own delivery drivers. But that's a really hard sell.)

- The company rents delivery people from us per day, we provide the delivery network. If you need to "burst" we can provide extra folks to augment at a premium. Ideally someday we'll get some lucrative Amazon contract where the Amazon warehouse, but to start with we're doing laundry delivery and other odd jobs. The company maintains their brand; we're just a courier service. You don't go to the FedEx website to order something, you select FedEx at the end with "how would you like this to come to you."

- On the side, we do sell a service of "we will give you a new pickup/delivery portal web site that works with our delivery service" to smaller businesses so that they can get started with us.

- We are a courier service but we only operate in cities where we can sufficiently average out the volumes needed. Amazon, UPS, FedEx can be the kings of the countryside, that's fine.

- The company, assuming food, sends their delivery-person right when the food is cooked, they are our employee and package it to our standards and bring it straight out to our delivery hub. In general they will not be going to the final address. We use this as a process buffer to maximize our throughput for the people actually driving to the home addresses, we can make sure that certain people get to know neighborhood X better, etc.

- The shipping price should come in two tiers, give people a generous shipping discount for advance orders where we can have more opportunity to batch and optimize.

- Because the company pays us (and the user pays them for "shipping"), under no circumstance does the user tip; that workflow is just too indirect to sustain tipping.

- Which means we have to do a 180 on how we treat the delivery folks; ideally they'd be full-time employees and we'd proactively unionize them.

That last bit sounds like suicide but really there's a ton of noise in terms of all of this "well the question of who are our delivery people is fraught, they can drop off the map at any time" and it's like, no, I want to be able to say at the central hub, "here's the route you're about to follow, review it while you wait 2 more minutes for Tina to arrive with order 6AF12B, that's your third one, we've got the motor running for you and you know these streets better than anybody," and under no circumstance is that person saying "eh, I have a party I want to go check out, I'm just going to go with these 2 orders and leave Tina in the lurch." And, we can sell it to city-goers as "this is the ethical way to deliver, the union makes sure that we maintain the cars and that we pay as well as we can."

And the rest of it is making the profit back up in volume.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#103
post #8

> Dashers who deliver in NYC will now earn at least $29.93 per hour of active time, nearly twice NYC’s $15 minimum wage for other workers. What’s a realistic amount of “active time” per hour? I’m assuming waiting for a job is not active time right? > These new regulations will force us to raise fees for orders in New York City. In order to better balance the impact of these new costs, we’re moving the option to tip i…

Hasn't doordash also said if you don't add a tip a dasher is unlikely to pickup your order? Therefore, the tip seems more like a fee to me.

So, I did doordash for three years during the pandemic, working through college. In that time. I received 5 tips post-delivery, out of nearly 2000 deliveries. It was so uncommon that I remember all of them. At the same time, regardless of distance or time, DoorDash would only offer $2-$3.50 per delivery. So yes, if you didn't tip up-front, I was unlikely to take your delivery after I ealized that. My rule of thumb was no less than $5, and $2/mile, decreasing to $1/mile with a long enough distance. Otherwise, between maintenance and gas, I was losing money. I only broke that rule if my numbers were too low. They implemented this style of pay shortly before I left the service, but in my experience, it paid nowhere near well enough to be worthwhile.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should be illegal to ask for a variable tip before a service is substantially completed. Go ahead and charge a fixed gratuity, but prepaying tips is silly.

It definitely shouldn't be unlawful for the service provider to ask prior to completing the service but I really wish more people would see it as distasteful, as seemingly most forms of drip pricing are considered. Obviously the tip is for exceptionally good service; if it's baked into the sale price then it's just another form of drip pricing.

I wouldn't burden the service provider, I would burden the payment processor and card network. If there’s a license involved, even better. Some merchant codes can’t have tips, merchant onboarding can’t have tip upselling by the sales team

Regulate behavior by regulating the intermediary

Think about anything this way and you can push the same changes through any form of government

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#105
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works as a bid but only up to a certain amount, above which Dasher just shows the offer with e.g. "$6+ tip", hiding the full tip amount until after the order is delivered.

Oh wow, this is actually interesting. Out of curiosity, do you happen to know whether the threshold for hiding the full tip amount is based on a percentage of the total order cost or if it is just a flat number? I.e., “anything over $6 gets truncated to $6+” vs. “anything over 20% of the order gets truncated to ${total_order_cost*0.2}+”. Or could it be based off the 3 pre-selected options for the tip that are display…

So, it has changed over the years, but it used to be {roof(basePay + $5, floor(mileage) * 2)} so with the $3.50 base pay of the day, anything under 5 miles had a max showing of $8.50, and then anything over would be like, $10+. It still roughly works that way, but the constants change

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#106
post #2

"As always 100% of tips go to dashers" lol it was "as always" definitely remember reading that DD kept couriers tips...

They used tips (and may still use tips) to refund themselves for the minimum pay offered to dashers. The language was very deceptive, as giving a tip did not always increase the amount of money received by a dasher.

> They used tips (and may still use tips) to refund themselves for the minimum pay offered to dashers.

Not trying to make a stance one way or another, just wanted to make sure I understand what you meant by this correctly.

Is what you are describing essentially the same way it works in the restaurant industry for waiters/servers?

TLDR: waiters/servers in the US typically have a base pay that’s below the minimum wage, but they get to keep all the tips. However, if a waiter/server at the end of their pay period makes less with their base pay+tips than what the minimum wage for the area would be, the employer is legally on the hook for making up the difference to the employee.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#107
post #45
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't really viable business models to begin with. Only VC funding can keep these online platform up.

Not sure why you got downvoted, its true. These platforms are all a race to the bottom to capture market share and then jack up of prices to recover lost revenue. Overall, it ends up being a terrible experience for the customer and the driver/deliverer.

Because it’s not true anymore, and complaining about high prices for a service that is just moving up market kind of ignores the reality that a business can make fewer sales if its margins on the remaining sales are sufficiently high, which is exactly what has happened.

In other words, delivery apps went through the “burn vc money” phase already, and are now focusing on profitability, and successfully so.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#108
post #10
post #8

> Dashers who deliver in NYC will now earn at least $29.93 per hour of active time, nearly twice NYC’s $15 minimum wage for other workers. What’s a realistic amount of “active time” per hour? I’m assuming waiting for a job is not active time right? > These new regulations will force us to raise fees for orders in New York City. In order to better balance the impact of these new costs, we’re moving the option to tip i…

Wow I totally missed the “active” part, thanks for pointing that out. Would love to hear from someone with actual DD experience what percentage of time is “active,” and what you have to do to keep that time high?

Dashed for 3 years, it's highly variable. I probably averaged 50% or less tbh. Also, un-tipped orders are weighted more into the pay-by-time in my experience, since you can't say no. It also means you can't avoid slow/bad restaurants, or unsafe/low-tipping neighborhoods.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#109
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, this is actually interesting. Out of curiosity, do you happen to know whether the threshold for hiding the full tip amount is based on a percentage of the total order cost or if it is just a flat number? I.e., “anything over $6 gets truncated to $6+” vs. “anything over 20% of the order gets truncated to ${total_order_cost*0.2}+”. Or could it be based off the 3 pre-selected options for the tip that are display…

It seems to be one of several fixed, round numbers depending on the market (city). But there may be other factors. It's an interesting policy choice and I'm curious why they do it. Needless to say, drivers very much want to know the whole tip amount and are annoyed that the displayed value is capped.

obviously drivers would want to know it, but is that good for everyone involved? It would make more of an auction but should it even be an auction?

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#110
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be forced to be honest and call it a bid, not a tip.

Tipping in the US has become an obligation or entitlement and is rarely associated with the actual service anymore.

I would add: especially when using apps or food delivery of any kind.

The chances of a server spitting in my food for me leaving a bad tip after a meal in a restaurant are 0%. The chances of someone mucking with my food because I tipped $1 on a $40 order are absolutely >0%.

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