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OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

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Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#101

Post by code_runner »

cowthulhu wrote: post #48

It’s amazing how every action the board takes (or the new CEO chosen by the board) just makes them look worse. I’d like to offer my consulting services: my new consulting company will come in, and then whatever you want to do we will tell you not to. We provide immense value by stopping companies like OpenAI from shooting off their foot. And then their other foot. And then one of their hands.

Honestly, any strategy from George Costanza would be better than this.

To start, he would’ve coasted at the easiest job on the planet.

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#102

Post by paulddraper »

voisin wrote: post #61
lolinder wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most chilling line in the open letter is this one, which I haven't heard anyone talking about: > You also informed the leadership team that allowing the company to be destroyed “would be consistent with the mission.”

Reminds me of the final season of Silicon Valley. Is this Pied Piper at Tres Comma Fest?

Life imitates art.

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#103

Post by gkoberger »

zombiwoof wrote: post #92

imagine you are Mira. you are told Thursday they will fire Sam. You would think she would at a minimum ask why. Let's assume she does that. Then they give the two reasons Ilya did. What normal non-self serving human would even go along with the plan at that point? Now she realizes she must bail to hitch a ride back on her Sam gravy train. She is major sus here. Any non greed ego driven person would have told the boar…

We don't know that she didn't give Sam a heads-up.

That being said, Mira was likely blindsided herself. She likely believed there was good reason. It's clear in hindsight that Sam likely wasn't wrong, but when the people Sam appointed to fire him if necessary say he's being fired, I don't think it's wrong if your gut reaction is to accept it.

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#104

Post by brookst »

bhouston wrote: post #43
fullshark wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Sustkever on the board? Why is this phrased like he isn't and is just delivering a message?

In this situation the most powerful people on the board should have been Altman, Brockman and Sutskever. The others were sort of nice to haves who were there just to fill it out. For them to run this coup is just insane. There has to be more to it. Someone has to be pulling the strings with a plan.

> Someone has to be pulling the strings with a plan.

Why do people keep insisting on this, when the entirety of human history is littered with dumb mistakes made by a mix of well- and evil-meaning people, in totally uncoordinated ways, with no concept of the consequences?

Popular media aside, human beings aren't smart, consistent, or disciplined enough to pull off these elaborate schemes. And the tiny tiny percentage of people who might be the exception are too smart to do so with such spectacular incompetence.

Like the man says, it's a headless bunder operating under the illusion of a master plan.

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#105

Post by paulddraper »

prepend wrote: post #34

So Surdkever fires Altman, then signs a letter saying they’ll quit unless he’s reinstated. There’s only 4 board members, right? Who wanted him fired. Is this a situation where they all thought the others wanted him fired and were just stupid? Have they been feeding motions into chatgpt and asking “should add I do this?”

It'd have to be a very stupid version of chatgpt

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#107

Post by swatcoder »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #89

>Sustkever is said to have offered two explanations he purportedly received from the board He received from the board? Here we go again with the narrative that Ilya was a bystander, at most an unwilling participant. He was a member of the board, on equal footing with the other board members, and his vote to oust Sam was necessary for there to be a majority.

Altman et al have been driving coordinated PR all weekend, and it's clear from his regrets tweet and the employee petition that Sustkever has now taken solidarity with Altman, so you would expect Altman's PR engine to start trying to restore Sustkever's image as they provide tips and comments to reporters.

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#108

Post by adventured »

zombiwoof wrote: post #92

imagine you are Mira. you are told Thursday they will fire Sam. You would think she would at a minimum ask why. Let's assume she does that. Then they give the two reasons Ilya did. What normal non-self serving human would even go along with the plan at that point? Now she realizes she must bail to hitch a ride back on her Sam gravy train. She is major sus here. Any non greed ego driven person would have told the boar…

You don't know even a small fraction enough about what went on in regards to Mira and the board to be declaring that she is somehow suspect in the events that unfolded.

That last part that you wrote - any non greed ego driven person - is argumentum ad populum, which further undermines your statement. If had something more to support such a dramatic claim about Mira's character and role, you'd have brought it.

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#109

Post by awb »

fullshark wrote: post #30
Jensson wrote: post #5

The two reasons: > Sustkever is said to have offered two explanations he purportedly received from the board, according to one of the people familiar. One explanation was that Altman was said to have given two people at OpenAI the same project. > The other was that Altman allegedly gave two board members different opinions about a member of personnel. An OpenAI spokesperson did not respond to requests for comment.

Isn't Sustkever on the board? Why is this phrased like he isn't and is just delivering a message?

It doesn't seem to reconcile well with the earlier paragraph:

> chief scientist and co-founder Sutskever, who helped vote Altman out and did the actual firing of him over Google Meet

If you're voting and doing the firing, you should know the reason.

Re: OpenAI's employees were given two explanations for why Sam Altman was fired

#110

Post by bnralt »

bhouston wrote: post #43
fullshark wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Sustkever on the board? Why is this phrased like he isn't and is just delivering a message?

In this situation the most powerful people on the board should have been Altman, Brockman and Sutskever. The others were sort of nice to haves who were there just to fill it out. For them to run this coup is just insane. There has to be more to it. Someone has to be pulling the strings with a plan.

It's wouldn't be that surprising, I've seen these kind of group dynamics play out fairly often. If D'Angelo, McCauley, and Toner formed a clique, and Sustkever was easily influenced by clique politics, that's all it would take. A lot of people will buckle surprisingly fast to social pressure and clique politics. Its also something that can blindside hardworking individuals who assume that others are above this type of stuff.

I'm not saying that's how it played out. But I've often seen social bullies - even ones who are mostly hated - have more success than hard working individuals who get targeted. Even if someone is a competent individual, a lot of their colleagues will abandon then if they're convinced the individual is a target.

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