280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars • Hacker News Board

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#101

Post by woodruffw » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

aftbit wrote: post #75

thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

Certainly in the Bay it's pretty easy to get by with no car at all - just rent or borrow one if you want to take a trip to Tahoe every once in a while. If you go deeper into the country though, there are many places where car ownership is nearly mandatory, especially for people who can't WFH. EVs are pretty close to being able to replace ICE cars around here, but still can't match the range, cost, or longevity of an…

> If you go deeper into the country though, there are many places where car ownership is nearly mandatory, especially for people who can't WFH.

This is true, but it's also worth noting that it's true because small and medium-sized cities systematically dismantled their public transportation systems between the 1920s and 1960s, replacing them with infrequent bus services.

One of the things I do when trying to understand how so many of our smaller cities became car hells is to Google "$CITY streetcars 20th century." We had the infrastructure and chose to remove it.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#102

Post by julienreszka » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

Have you seen the picture with the 2 children plus one adult on one bike? Make me really uncomfortable I immediately imagine how they risk to be crushed by a truck.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#103

Post by ChrisKnott » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

bigfudge wrote: post #45

rglullis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think it's actually just anglo countries. The UK is batshit about cars as well, and I don't think the Aussies are much better.

By what metric? The UK doesn't stand out in this list - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicle... - it's below most of its peer nations.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#104

Post by PopAlongKid » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:52 PM UTC

Another comment mentioned pros and cons for the user of the ebike.

As a frequent pedestrian on the nearby heavily-used trails, I see a number of cons for everyone else:

Despite a prohibition on motorized vehicles on these trails, they exploit a loophole for handicapped users, and the agency in charge refuses to do anything to fix it.

Even if it makes sense to allow these motorized vehicles, the 15 MPH speed limit is frequently violated. Many of these people (especially scooters) don't wear helmets and speed recklessly, zipping between walkers, joggers, people pushing toddlers in strollers, etc. I saw a scooter user painfully wipe out just a few weeks ago. I'm sadly awaiting the first case of serious injury or fatality (to the user or others) caused by an uninsured speeding e-bike or scooter.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#105

Post by coldtea » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:52 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #35

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #8

Eliminating the daily commute for those who have jobs where in person presence isn't essential beats all other forms of transportation. But activists, cities, and greenwash companies have all shown their true face, each for their own reasons of self-interest.

I take you don't have kids to take to school and you get all your groceries delivered to your door by someone on an e-bike?

The groceries can be delivered by car or van efficiently, as the same delivery person can also serve other people along the way (as opposed to everybody going to get their groceries with their car indepedently and polluting 10x).

Or you know, have supermarkets and grocery stores in walking distance.

As for the kids, there is such a thing as a school bus...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#106

Post by nurple » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:52 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #29

drunner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is a long standing failure in urban planning in the US. Cities that don't support walking/biking/public transit stupid, but just accepted as the norm here. The whole I-10 thing in LA right now cracks me up. Like they are begging people "please take the bus/train, don't drive", because 1 road closed. Imagine if the bus/train was already preferred because the infrastructure was so much better. Imagine if all t…

> The damage is so deep that it feels irreversible at this point, like the US will be doomed to cars and traffic forever. There's lots of energy to change things, but you need to find the right city. It will still take 50 years to even approach the level of Amsterdam, but here in Boston I live car-free and the bike infrastructure is getting better every year. Right now the problem is density: solving the car problem…

Or perhaps it means building less-dense light commercial?

I'm not a big fan of the perspective that our only solution to the current housing issues are to package humans in quarters whose main selling point over chicken coops is that your feces don't fall on the heads of your downstairs neighbors.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#107

Post by allemagne » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:53 PM UTC

drunner wrote: post #16

johnea wrote: post #3

I'm not really sure where in the US people live that makes them think transportation can be replaced by a bike. I live in San Diego, the climate is great, but there is no way a person can travel any farther than their neighborhood on a bike. The main impediment at this point is the outrageous price of EVs in the US. In China cheap EVs are readily available, trade policies are preventing their import into the US. Bike…

And that is a long standing failure in urban planning in the US. Cities that don't support walking/biking/public transit stupid, but just accepted as the norm here. The whole I-10 thing in LA right now cracks me up. Like they are begging people "please take the bus/train, don't drive", because 1 road closed. Imagine if the bus/train was already preferred because the infrastructure was so much better. Imagine if all t…

Now that the US made that choice, more density and more walkability has to necessarily come at the expense of drivers. Some of whom can handle it and some of whom who largely can't afford to restructure their lives around super dense and super expensive urban cores.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#108

Post by radium3d » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:53 PM UTC

underbluewaters wrote: post #56

I feel lucky every single day that I can take a 10 minute e-bike ride into the office. I say lucky because I know it's not available to everyone, but it's so good for my mental health to get outside every morning and afternoon. That experience can't be replicated with a Tesla no matter how affordable they might become.

Yeah, e-bikes are great for good weather and living within 5 miles of your office. Tesla's are great for the rest and they do have windows at least for those of us who have to commute. And at least the 132MPGe of a model 3 is better than a gas powered motorcycle.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#109

Post by hurryer » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

PopAlongKid wrote: post #104

Another comment mentioned pros and cons for the user of the ebike. As a frequent pedestrian on the nearby heavily-used trails, I see a number of cons for everyone else: Despite a prohibition on motorized vehicles on these trails, they exploit a loophole for handicapped users, and the agency in charge refuses to do anything to fix it. Even if it makes sense to allow these motorized vehicles, the 15 MPH speed limit is…

Why do you care if they don't wear helmets?

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#110

Post by trashface » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

I've seen a lot of these on my local walking path. Which is exactly that - a narrow, paved walking path, in a park.

Sometimes they will use their horn to alert peds walking they are passing - which is like, a car horn, because they need that for roads. I've never been "horned" but I've heard it and its not pleasant. Other times they just blow right by no warning.

And unlike walkers or bikers, I almost never see them coming back the other way. I think what has happened is they discovered the path is a quick cut-through to roads they want to get to on the other side.

Last time I was out I saw a literal motorcycle on the path. It wasn't a big one, but no doubt, it was a straight up gas-spewing motorcycle, no question about it. I had to laugh in between choking on its fumes.

I'm used to getting buzzed by cyclists but this is a bit much, and I've been walking less in the worse-affected park. Another park I walk in is a national park and the rangers don't tolerate that kind of crap. But the state and local parks don't have the manpower to enforce.