Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#101

Post by spease » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:06 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #97

conductr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or did this process cause a bunch more pain and hassle to deal with the iPhone as the source camera? Did you read/skim the article because that's the focal point of the whole piece and discussions taking place in the videos. The whole thing is touting how easy the pros were able to slot this in and do their normal workflows on top. > Is there actually a compelling reason to use an iPhone for this type of work over…

Well, the misleading thing is that Apple's implication is "you too can make videos that look like this with just the phone in your pocket " (emphasis mine). > the pros were able to slot this in and do their normal workflows Because you can't do it with "just the phone in your pocket". You can do it with the $50-100K of equipment you see on that page, just using the phone as the camera, one small part of the process.…

I’m not sure what your objection is here. As you point out, they have photos that very prominently feature professional lighting and tripod equipment. They even explain in a caption that they customized it for the iPhone.

How is that misleading that all they used was “the phone in your pocket”?

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#102

Post by MBCook » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

CodeBrad wrote: post #86

kemayo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expanding slightly on this, the cheapest Red Camera costs $6k (and I think might not include a lens?), so that's a pretty big savings.

Is it though? How much does all the associated gear, operators, actors, sets, producers cost? In the context of professional video production, a one time savings of $6k seems pretty small.

The point is what the footage looks like. It’s about the camera output.

An iPhone + good lighting + microphone will give you fantastic footage.

You don’t need the drone or lift. If you’re not trying to do those effects they don’t matter. The iPhone can give you great results if you own one, you don’t need to buy a fancy camera, you can spend your budget elsewhere if you’re getting started.

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#103

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #82

SirMaster wrote: post #75

I don't think many people were really wondering if this sort of thing "could" be done. IMO that's not the important question. The question is, did the people who filmed and created the video with the iPhone hardware actually enjoy this process / workflow? Or did this process cause a bunch more pain and hassle to deal with the iPhone as the source camera? Compared to some alternative they could have used. Is there act…

> Is there actually a compelling reason to use an iPhone for this type of work over the various alternatives? For major studios? Of course not. For tiny-budget indie films, student films, YouTube comedy webseries, and the like? Hugely.

> For tiny-budget indie films

There's easily $100K of equipment on that page.

You can rent an EOS C700 and 6 CN-E lenses for $2000/week. RED for not much more.

If you're making a tiny budget indie, you already have similar caliber equipment. You're not renting high end ARRI and Panavision optics.

I love that you can make good video with such small equipment. I just think if you're doing something like this, optimizing for "well, let's buy an iPhone" over the benefits of traditional cameras is odd, even for a smaller scale production.

Frankly, I think, "show us what you can do with an iPhone and a small gimbal, a couple of basic continuous lights, even if it doesn't look as good as this production" would have given a better view of the capabilities and potential.

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#104

Post by kstrauser » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:09 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #54

kstrauser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what this shows is that it's capable of being used at all for pro-level work. No, I don't have all the nice gear that Apple has, but I can have the same camera. It's similar to how they show MacBook Pro users making movies, doing AI work, processing huge datasets, etc. The message is that I don't need to do all those things. But if I did, the computer would be good enough to do them. In the context of the iPh…

> but it's clearly going to be good enough to take pictures of my vacation. Is that clear? Even ignoring the form factor, I expect you would be quite disappointed casually shooting your vacation on a camera typically used on these types of shoots.

It's clear to me, perhaps because I don't know enough about it to appreciate why I might be wrong. When it comes to cameras, I'm just a regular Joe who points my phone at stuff and then it shows up in Photos. More camera == more better, right?

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#105

Post by SirMaster » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #90

SirMaster wrote: post #75

I don't think many people were really wondering if this sort of thing "could" be done. IMO that's not the important question. The question is, did the people who filmed and created the video with the iPhone hardware actually enjoy this process / workflow? Or did this process cause a bunch more pain and hassle to deal with the iPhone as the source camera? Compared to some alternative they could have used. Is there act…

> Or did this process cause a bunch more pain and hassle to deal with the iPhone as the source camera? Did you read/skim the article because that's the focal point of the whole piece and discussions taking place in the videos. The whole thing is touting how easy the pros were able to slot this in and do their normal workflows on top. > Is there actually a compelling reason to use an iPhone for this type of work over…

I admit I committed the cardinal sin of not really reading the article.

I'll do better next time.

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#106

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #100

FireBeyond wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the misleading thing is that Apple's implication is "you too can make videos that look like this with just the phone in your pocket " (emphasis mine). > the pros were able to slot this in and do their normal workflows Because you can't do it with "just the phone in your pocket". You can do it with the $50-100K of equipment you see on that page, just using the phone as the camera, one small part of the process.…

Well, a professional cinema camera and a set of lens can easily pass 100K and you'll still need the 50-100k of equipment.

You can rent a RED camera and lenses for $3,000/week. If you're a major production, then this is a non-issue.

If you're doing an indie/film school short or similar, I can't see people breaking down their tech budget as "$100K for lighting, gimbals, etc., and $1100 for an iPhone".

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#107

Post by conductr » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #97

conductr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or did this process cause a bunch more pain and hassle to deal with the iPhone as the source camera? Did you read/skim the article because that's the focal point of the whole piece and discussions taking place in the videos. The whole thing is touting how easy the pros were able to slot this in and do their normal workflows on top. > Is there actually a compelling reason to use an iPhone for this type of work over…

Well, the misleading thing is that Apple's implication is "you too can make videos that look like this with just the phone in your pocket " (emphasis mine). > the pros were able to slot this in and do their normal workflows Because you can't do it with "just the phone in your pocket". You can do it with the $50-100K of equipment you see on that page, just using the phone as the camera, one small part of the process.…

Oh yeah, totally agree on that point. Apple always does these "shot on iPhone" things that just don't look anything like my videos. But I also have never once been bothered enough by it to put my videos through editing software/color correction/etc. So I can't really complain.

I think it does still highlight that you can take this device far, almost as far as you'd ever need to. I think most people making videos are doing it for youtube and social, they would invest in a few smaller accessories that would cover 80% of the needs and would never need to use all of what Apple had at their disposal (the SpaceCam rig is excessive, a lot can be done with amateur/affordable gimbles and rigs). So, it's selling the fact that it's a good starter device for budding videographers (plenty of room for you can grow into it). But also not likely to convert pros away from whatever they're already using.

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#108

Post by chmod775 » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

diggan wrote: post #80

threeseed wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be curious what the new $1000 camera is that has a 13-120mm lens, 48MP and is capable of shooting ProRes Log.

A Blackmagic Pocket Cinema starter bundle comes close, would be under 1500 but over 1000 USD. Gives you BRAW or ProRes, both log. Infinite more control over the captures, huge ecosystem of (professional) tooling and equipment that is compatible with it.

That's already way more than you need to beat the iPhone. The iPhone can't even capture 4k 60fps ProRes on device - you need to connect an external recording device to use that.

Also note that, according to its datasheet, the iPhone cannot capture video on its tiny 48MP sensor at that resolution at all - just 4k.

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#109

Post by kuschku » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

mnemoni_c wrote: post #66

kuschku wrote: post #64

I'd love to see what they did to work around the framerate issues. iPhones record in variable framerate (they just encode one frame, once that's fully encoded read the next frame and repeat). This leads to fps varying by up to ±10%, which causes a lot of issues with most editing software.

That's why they used third party app to control ISO and shutter speed I presume

Even the BMD camera app — at least the version that's publicly available — can't work around those limitations. It still records footage in VFR.

Re: Apple’s keynote event shot on iPhone and edited on Mac

#110

Post by olliej » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #95

kranke155 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Apple has done this can be helpful to filmmakers to prove a point. Ie go to your producer and say hey Apple did this. We can do it

The phone itself looks like a pretty insignificant portion of the total equipment cost. Why would you use an iPhone instead of an full camera at that point?

Yes, a phone is a small part of the cost in this set up.

An actual film camera instead can be much, much more per day.

In reality no one other than apple is going to have high end professional light rigs and a phone camera. But plenty of people could use the money they aren't spending on a "proper" camera on better lighting instead and perhaps get a better final product than the historical configuration of "we've spent a tonne renting the camera, let's see if we can afford any lighting".