As Digital Nomads Flock to Lisbon, Portugal's Youth Are Leaving in Droves • Hacker News Board

Re: As Digital Nomads Flock to Lisbon, Portugal's Youth Are Leaving in Droves

#101

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

somewhereoutth wrote: post #93

quonn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a Portuguese employer? If so this is not surprising at all. > Furthermore, that social security contribution buys into one of best defined benefit pension schemes still available anywhere. Ridiculous. It‘s not even close to being funded in the long term. It‘s one of the worst on the continent where all of them them some problems.

To my knowledge the Portuguese government has never failed its obligations to pensioners, why would it do so in the future? The economy is growing and this will all be backed by a stronger more integrated EU anyway. I'm happy to take that bet!

Same here, the system has been in place for ages and hasn't failed. Last I check it was fully funded until 2060 or so.

During the IMF "bailout" pensions were reduced nominally. This was a political choice, and the party that did that will never win an election again as long as all those pensioners live.

Re: As Digital Nomads Flock to Lisbon, Portugal's Youth Are Leaving in Droves

#102

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

quonn wrote: post #56

jmyeet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will make the problem worse as the Portuguese will complain that the foreigners own the beautiful modern buildings. I don't agree. We already have expensive housing in every country that those who aren't wealthy might covet. Also, new construction can be done in a way where you set aside, say, 20% of the units for locals in the same way that cities like NYC try to (but, you know, better). > Additionally it‘s i…

Also Airbnb is already banned in Lisbon, there are no new AL licenses given as far as I know. Or at least there was a plan for that.

Sure, no new licenses, but the entire AirBnB neighborhoods in the tourist areas are still there, sucking up valuable housing stock. There haven't been any reduction in the amount of AirBnB, just no new licenses are issued.

Re: As Digital Nomads Flock to Lisbon, Portugal's Youth Are Leaving in Droves

#103

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #72

somewhereoutth wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with 1. Ban AirBnB. (this is already in play as I understand it) Silly tax incentives like Non-Habitual Residency have to go (done). 2. Actually already exists in the suburbs, but maybe now needs a bit of a make over. Of course the children of well-heeled Portuguese wouldn't stoop to live in such places while studying at University, but hey that's the world we live in! 3. The Golden Visa scheme is a nonsense (I…

> Agree with 1. Ban AirBnB. (this is already in play as I understand it) I believe no new licenses are being granted. Personally, I don't think this goes far enough. Revoke existing licenses. > The Golden Visa scheme is a nonsense (I think this is also being scrapped) IMHO this was an overreaction. If the issue was pricing out locals, you could simply remove real estate as a qualifying investment under the visa and/o…

> IMHO this was an overreaction. If the issue was pricing out locals, you could simply remove real estate as a qualifying investment under the visa and/or increase the minimum investment amount.

This is what the ban did. The golden visa for creating 10 non-temporary jobs remains, but for 9 years, there were 250 jobs created, with 20 takers (meaning almost all of them created the bare minimum 10 jobs).

https://observador.pt/2021/12/25/vistos-gold-criterio-de-cri...

Re: As Digital Nomads Flock to Lisbon, Portugal's Youth Are Leaving in Droves

#104

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #4

somewhereoutth wrote: post #3

In summary, salaries need to rise (and they are), and the tax system needs to raise its thresholds accordingly (and it hasn't yet?). Note that the increase in housing costs has been largely driven by AirBnB etc, like much of the more desirable to tourists parts of Europe. Digital nomads (working remotely, almost by definition, and not getting paid that much in the grand scheme of things, again almost by definition) a…

> Digital nomads (working remotely, almost by definition, and not getting paid that much in the grand scheme of things, again almost by definition) a I don't think you know what you're talking about. Living in Portugal while remotely working for any semi decent tech company puts you in the top 10% earners easily

https://www.pordata.pt/db/portugal/ambiente+de+consulta/tabe...

Actually, for 2021, earning 40k€ per year puts you in the top 10%. 4 in 5 families earn less than 27k€. Less than 5000 families earn more than 250k€. Top 1% is 100k€.

This is for a population of about 10 million.

Re: As Digital Nomads Flock to Lisbon, Portugal's Youth Are Leaving in Droves

#105

Post by archagon » Mon, Oct 30, 2023, 1:50 AM UTC

reustle wrote: post #88

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #10

I believe Portugal was about to end the golden visa. Can someone expand on this topic? Also, is it true to say the golden visa is not attractive to US citizens? Finally, which foreign citize s benefit the most from the Portugal golden visa?

> is it true to say the golden visa is not attractive to US citizens? It was still attractive because it gave you a pretty fast path to a second citizenship.

For certain definitions of the word “fast.” The period is officially 5 years, but I believe you could be waiting years on either end for the initial permit as well as final citizenship.