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Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

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Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Truckers refused to deliver food and beer to McDonalds.“ Beer?

As a european, I didn't knew this was not a thing at McDonalds. I have always seen beer served there and I don't know why it should be exempt from serving it.

During my long-ago employment at McDonalds, nearly all the staff was under 18, and so ineligible to be handling alcoholic beverages, even 3.2 beer. Many American states are quite fussy about this sort of thing--I've had a younger cashier at a grocery store call over an older to scan my carton of beer.

Now I guess there are more of the over-18 or over-21 employed at McDonalds, but it might disrupt the flow of ordering if all orders with beer had to go through particular registers.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#102
post #28

elon is furious that european workers demand to work in a safe environment because this is not how fortunes are built (they're built the old fashion way, with broken limbs and lead poisoning)

How are Swedish Tesla employees unsafe? Does Sweden not have safety regulations? Are Swedish authorities failing to enforce them?

Minimum wage is settled by union agreements in Sweden, for once.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#103
post #28

elon is furious that european workers demand to work in a safe environment because this is not how fortunes are built (they're built the old fashion way, with broken limbs and lead poisoning)

How are Swedish Tesla employees unsafe? Does Sweden not have safety regulations? Are Swedish authorities failing to enforce them?

[deleted]

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#104

I have to say I don't understand Elon's (Tesla's) reaction here. Surely he was advised on Swedish and EU laws and how things work over here before he decided to do business in Sweden?

Tesla is not doing anything illegal as far as I understand. Looks like there is an expectation that Tesla behaves in a certain way in Sweden because " that's way we've always done it " but that's not in law. Tesla is sticking to the law, as far as I understand. I'm a bit uncomfortable about companies being criticised for sticking to the law. Of course, if workes and unions disagree they can also use their legal right…

When it comes to ethics, the law should always be seen as the bare minimum, not the bar that we as society should actually expect people and companies to clear.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solely sticking to the law means paying minimum wage with maximum hours for any work type with no benefits. Negotiation and better terms are not part of the law, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to do without. Union agreements are the standard way to do this here, and refusing to negotiate with unions means refusing to cooperate with the work force market. They can disagree with unions and the people within the law…

There is no minimum wage in sweden, because in central european labour fashion they expect labour and companies to cooperate and come to a mutually agreeable and socially beneficial rate. Although germany recently ended up introducing a legal minimum wage because an other US corp was being too shit about it (I don’t remember if it was amazon or something like walmart).

Actually, the EU is pushing for minimum wages in all countries but Sweden is pushing back because their system apparently does not need it...

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is not doing anything illegal as far as I understand. Looks like there is an expectation that Tesla behaves in a certain way in Sweden because " that's way we've always done it " but that's not in law. Tesla is sticking to the law, as far as I understand. I'm a bit uncomfortable about companies being criticised for sticking to the law. Of course, if workes and unions disagree they can also use their legal right…

When it comes to ethics, the law should always be seen as the bare minimum, not the bar that we as society should actually expect people and companies to clear.

The problem is that what you call "ethics" is arbitrary. The law applied uniformly is actually a safety net to protect everyone against arbitrary actions.

That's why the rule of law has been so important in the struggle for free societies and liberty.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#107
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are societies not allowed to chose certain models how to deal with some economic or employment situations? Why would only capital be allowed to pool but not workers?

Is a competing model not allowed in that society? Why can't individuals make decisions for themselves?

Because this ends in a race to the bottom. Employers have much greater power than employees as long as the latter are individualized and only act according to their individual best interest. Society is better when we do things for each other - and sometimes that involves things like not being a scab.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#108
post #51

> company claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world LoL, yeah good luck with that. From my experiences working for American companies, this is typical behaviour where an American company doesn't (yet) realise the things that got them ahead in the U.S.A. won't necessarily work — or even be legal or accepted — in Europe. They'll learn ;)

Elon Musk famous for sacking entire department or even close down factory PERMANENTLY. Europeans will find out their current unemployment will be doubling in coming months with no money to pay for American expensive oil and gas replacement to Russian. Swede will learn they arent that special and even influential. Their train schedules really under perform if you ever experienced the Japanese one.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#109
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a european, I didn't knew this was not a thing at McDonalds. I have always seen beer served there and I don't know why it should be exempt from serving it.

During my long-ago employment at McDonalds, nearly all the staff was under 18, and so ineligible to be handling alcoholic beverages, even 3.2 beer. Many American states are quite fussy about this sort of thing--I've had a younger cashier at a grocery store call over an older to scan my carton of beer. Now I guess there are more of the over-18 or over-21 employed at McDonalds, but it might disrupt the flow of ordering…

I am not a regular customer but I don't think I have seen that many under 18 working at McDonalds tbh and the few that would could be asked to just prepare the burgers and stuff or handling payments.

Re: Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike

#110
post #108
post #51

> company claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world LoL, yeah good luck with that. From my experiences working for American companies, this is typical behaviour where an American company doesn't (yet) realise the things that got them ahead in the U.S.A. won't necessarily work — or even be legal or accepted — in Europe. They'll learn ;)

Elon Musk famous for sacking entire department or even close down factory PERMANENTLY. Europeans will find out their current unemployment will be doubling in coming months with no money to pay for American expensive oil and gas replacement to Russian. Swede will learn they arent that special and even influential. Their train schedules really under perform if you ever experienced the Japanese one.

One of the stereotypes I have about Japan is that the rail system will be keep, to within seconds, and that the drivers sometimes commit seppuku if they're 30 seconds late.

I don't doubt that everyone else's trains "really under perform" in comparison.

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