Live data from Hacker News

Paper

fiftythree.com

101–110 of 131 posts

Re: Paper

#101
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a tablet PC with a Wacom digitizer, and it is awesome. Also, it's been around since 2001. http://duckduckgo.com/?q=tc1100

I remember that tablet, had no idea it was Wacom they are doing a lot more integrations now, though most are pen: http://www.wacom-components.com/english/partner/index.html

Beware; "now" appears to be 2009 and most of those products were discontinued once the iPad came out.

Re: Paper

#102
It seems to me the problem for detailed drawing is more of a hardware than a software problem at this point. It's very solvable on both sides it's a matter of timing the solution to hit the market when the major players in the pad space get to the right level of support for detailed styluses.

Clever alternative input methods to take an end run around screen resolution would be amazing if they're accurate enough.

I'd love to see someone give paper this 1 paper-cut.

Re: Paper

#103
Bought this this morning. I'm a figurative artist, for over 30 years, and this is a very nice tool. Especially for a version 1.0. The stroke dynamics are very good, and I'm running this on a first generation iPad. I've been sketching with it off and on all day, and have really grown to like it.

Things it needs:

* Pinch zoom in and out. Gotta have this. It works great when you are drawing at the scale of the whole page, but detail work suffers as the sampling of the device isn't good enough. (Nor are my fingers! This is why artists and illustrators often draw and paint as large as possible.) When they add zooming, and they say on their website they are, they need to be sure and adjust the tool's scaling to match the view.

* The limited color palette is fine, but I need to be able to pick the colors.

* More tools are a given, especially since the program itself is free and they are making their money by selling extra tools. I've already plunked down my eight bucks for all that's available.

The minimalist interface is fantastic. When you are drawing, and I'm speaking as a person who draws observationally, you want the tool to be as spacial and object oriented as possible. This doesn't mean you have to mimic "real world" drawing tools, but it does mean that the interface needs to not emphasize numerics and linguistics. The organization needs to be very simple; from a drawing point of view, if I have to drill down through a series of hierarchies I might has well type in menu selections from a command line. My attention needs to be on my subject and my drawing, not on a UI.

YMMV.

Re: Paper

#104
post #8

I really want to love this. iPad hardware just doesn't deliver. The problem isn't that nice drawing software like this doesn't exist, it's that styli on iPad still suck . The capacitive screen (even on "new" iPad) only has about a 6mm capacitive resolution, so you're stuck fudging the fck along with a sausage for a stylus. Ars had a good review[1] on the current state of styli, and they said much the same. I've perso…

I'm a lot more interested in stroke dynamics and zooming than I am in resolution and pressure sensitivity. I don't mean to say that those features wouldn't be welcome, but no real world tool can do everything. And limitations are often the foundation of style and expression.

I spent several years drawing with silverpoint and while it was an excruciating experience, the results were often gorgeous; especially as the drawing "ages" and the silver tarnishes. Talk about your non-intuitive interface.

Re: Paper

#105
post #8

I really want to love this. iPad hardware just doesn't deliver. The problem isn't that nice drawing software like this doesn't exist, it's that styli on iPad still suck . The capacitive screen (even on "new" iPad) only has about a 6mm capacitive resolution, so you're stuck fudging the fck along with a sausage for a stylus. Ars had a good review[1] on the current state of styli, and they said much the same. I've perso…

I wonder if the resolution issue could be improved by combining inertial sensing in the stylus with the position data from the capacitive display. You should be able to get sub-"pixel" resolution by using multiple sensors this way, though I'm not sure how well it would work in practice, with inertial drift, etc. It might be pretty good though! Worth trying I bet.

I would be willing to bet they are doing some kind of inertial modeling in their stroke dynamics right now. There is some kind of "Dynadraw" algorithm in their now that is smoothing and adjusting stroke thickness. Some it seems to be based on pointer velocity, but there is something else going on that I can't quite put my finger on ... as it were.

Re: Paper

#106
post #91
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The capacitive screen (even on "new" iPad) only has about a 6mm capacitive resolution What do you mean? I can definitely draw smaller features than 6 mm.

Pretty sure he means that while you can draw smaller than 6mm, you won't be able to position it accurately. I've tried using capacitive touchscreens and styluses, and they are not precise at all.

Your fingers don't have that kind of accuracy either. What you do have is precision in your finger/hand/arm system. Moment arm dynamics are far more important in precise drawings than addressable accuracy. The best digital drawing tools I've found make use of stroke dynamics rather than sensor sampling to produce precise and high quality strokes.

Re: Paper

#107
post #8

I really want to love this. iPad hardware just doesn't deliver. The problem isn't that nice drawing software like this doesn't exist, it's that styli on iPad still suck . The capacitive screen (even on "new" iPad) only has about a 6mm capacitive resolution, so you're stuck fudging the fck along with a sausage for a stylus. Ars had a good review[1] on the current state of styli, and they said much the same. I've perso…

I'm a lot more interested in stroke dynamics and zooming than I am in resolution and pressure sensitivity. I don't mean to say that those features wouldn't be welcome, but no real world tool can do everything. And limitations are often the foundation of style and expression. I spent several years drawing with silverpoint and while it was an excruciating experience, the results were often gorgeous; especially as the d…

Can your share some of your art? I'd like to see what silverpoint is.

Re: Paper

#108
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your point in general, but must nitpickishly correct your comment on Macs and right click. Every Apple trackpad and mouse sold today supports right click out of the box, and has done for years. Apple hasn't sold a one-click input device in a long time.

Correction, they support right-click if you enable it. One-click is the default, and most users never change it.

That's right. When you first plug in an Apple Mouse or Magic Mouse it is in one-button mode. However, any multi-button mouse will have all the buttons enabled. This is probably why some people think that multi-button mode is the default.

So let me clarify – all apple hardware comes by default with the secondary click disabled.

Re: Paper

#109
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely, but there's something very important that Apple has to to – not bundle a stylus. That's right: they should build Wacom technology into the tablet without including a pen or a place to hold it. Why? For the same reason that Macs still come defaulted to "one button" mode – to restrain software developers. You see, application developers for Mac can count on a significant percent of their user base b…

I feel the one button thing is stupid, but I agree on the stylus.

I completely disagree, but not for the reasons you might expect. Most people attribute Apple's decision to stubbornness, laziness, arrogance, vanity, or "just being different." It's not any of those, but Apple is so tight-lipped about their decision making that no one articulates why they make the choices they do. Their "one button" strategy is brilliant, and here's why:

As I said, the real reason Apple needs one button is to prevent interface designers from getting lazy. Apple (and their third-party developers) know that most people never change the defaults.

However, they don't really want to ship single-button hardware. Here's what most people don't realize: Apple knows it's a less expressive device. Back when they shipped real one button mice, their advanced users were forced to BYOHID. The hardware that Apple shipped was wasted. That sucks.

To resolve this dilemma Apple devised the Mighty Mouse (later the Magic Mouse). Since the "right-click" was in software they could keep the one-button default but have the hardware magically transform into a multi-button mouse for advanced users. Surely many will BYOHID anyway (this happens with PCs too), but two buttons satisfy many more users.

It's a neat solution to a technical and social problem.

Re: Paper

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a lot more interested in stroke dynamics and zooming than I am in resolution and pressure sensitivity. I don't mean to say that those features wouldn't be welcome, but no real world tool can do everything. And limitations are often the foundation of style and expression. I spent several years drawing with silverpoint and while it was an excruciating experience, the results were often gorgeous; especially as the d…

Can your share some of your art? I'd like to see what silverpoint is.

Most of that stuff is in storage in another state. I'm not sure how silverpoint would scan. It would probably just look like a pen or pencil drawing.

Basically it is drawing with a piece of silver wire. The mark is very faint, especially on paper. To get enough silver to deposit, you often use paper covered with a ground of some kind, like gesso or very find sand or grit in a sizing of some kind.

Over time the silver tarnishes and darkens, but it has a luster about it that would be very difficult to photograph or scan. If you don't want the silver to tarnish, you can coat the work with a modern sealer, but no one really knows how that will age over the years.

One of the ways of drawing with silver point is to "glaze" over the work by tracing and retracing over the forms, to build up a fusion of the marking material. This can result in a very cloudy, diffuse rendering that still has a definite graphic look to it.

Very time consuming and it's hard to judge when to stop since the image is so faint.

One artist I knew used to spray the silver with chemicals to "develop" the image to a certain point, and then neutralize it when it had reached the darkness level he wanted, and then he sealed it.

You can also draw with gold wire, the markings are a faint yellow brownish color, but they have a definite luster to them. The gold doesn't tarnish like the silver, so you don't have the change over time. Depends on the effect you want I guess.

There was an artist in recent years who did these very large semi-photo real silver and gold point drawings. Several feet across. A reproduction simply cannot do them justice. They are very faint, and the light changes as you walk around them.

I've actually thought about doing a digital installation piece using Processing that has drawings and photos that exhibit apparent change according to the light and the viewer's orientation to the work. And of course with digital, you could have the actual image itself change, and not just the viewing apparition.

Post reply on HN