Earlier quoted context omitted.
The software that keeps all modern airliners in the sky is written by companies that have lots and lots of process. Do you think those software projects are doomed from the jump just because there's a lot of process involved?
The cost/benefit tradeoff is very different for those companies. Usually, no one almost dies when your social app goes belly-up.
Agile is a Sham
101–110 of 189 posts
Re: Agile is a Sham
#102Re: Agile is a Sham
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't you think that agile proponents are frequently using a No True Scotsman here? That is, Statement: No Agile Team would do X. Response: An Agile Team did do X. Statement: Well, no True Agile Team would do X. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman )
So what? It doesn't absolve the team of the fact that they're doing Agile incorrectly. Call them whatever you want, they're still Doing It Wrong.
If a methodology is so brittle that any diversion from the straight and narrow (a) means you're no longer using that methodology and (b) ostensibly (or actually) invites disaster, then that is a very, very rigid methodology.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#104Agile was supposed to help developers escape the obstacles of poor management and poor managers. It's really about developers owning the development of the software, and being given more creative authority. Non-developers play a support role, if they're present at all. That part is all fine and dandy, and it's The Good Part® of agile. Let the guys who make software be responsible for making software. Brilliant!
Managers, of course, don't want to get marginalized. If they see a movement towards Agile, they would rather bring it in themselves, so that they can control how it's implemented. And they implement it in a way that a) fits their existing biases about software development b) doesn't marginalize themselves[2]. Both of those goals are met by taking the agile process, and turning into The Agile Process (engraved on stone tablets, up on a pedestal).
Agile should be less process, but when the transition is implemented by process guys, it just ends up being different process rather than less. And naturally, the one role in agile that ex-managers can step into (aforementioned support role) is more important in this set-up, because it's about owning and managing the process. So the revolution happens, and nothing changes. Instead of developers having more freedom, the old managers just have a new title. That title still comes with the authority to make developers fall in line, except that "in line" now refers to a different set-in-stone collection of steps and rules.
tl;dr Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
[1] I'd rather not derail this thread into history and politics so I'm avoiding details.
[2] b) is actually a subset of a). One of management's existing biases is that management and process is an important part of software development.
This isn't a knock of managers; everyone thinks the same about themselves. Hell, Agile itself basically originates from developers having the same bias. They just happen to be more correct ;).
Re: Agile is a Sham
#105[Obligatory plug and disclaimer: Agile professional who wrote an earlier rant "Agile Ruined my Life" http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2010/09/agile-ruined-... Also I am writing some practical how-to Agile e-books trying to undo some of the damage: http://tiny-giant-books.com/scrummaster.htm ] Just differentiate between what Agile is and how people are pushing Agile on you. Different things entirely. Agile is be…
It's so important to remember this, as well as the corollary: I'm not that good myself. The article included this line:
> If you need to follow a prescribed process in order to be in any way an effective coder then you are mediocre at best and so is your work and your project.
I'm not sure if I agree with the statement itself, although I certainly think -- and know no one who doesn't think -- that the quality of your staff is more important than your process. But I'm sure I disagree with the way this statement is used to dismiss the idea of a prescribed process. One of the main goals of such a process is to get as good work as possible out of mediocre staff. Because there aren't enough high quality staff to go around. You won't get great work out of mediocre workers, but if you can get pretty bad work instead of total garbage, in many environments that's a big win. (In the startup environment that is hn's focus, pretty bad might be just as bad as total garbage.)
Re: Agile is a Sham
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. And this shit makes me furious. I got involved with this stuff before the term "Agile" existed. At the beginning, it was a bunch of professionals (mostly developers) sincerely trying to find better ways of working. Extreme Programming, for example, came to be because the developers were really interested to experiment with how their team got stuff done. It breaks my heart that in the ensuing decade it has tu…
The only people that screwed it up are the ones that monetized it. They made it a) rigid based on their definition b) defined themselves as experts in making teams agile based on their rigid definition c) charged for it PS. These same guys, once they couldn't squeeze anymore blood out of the Agile stone, moved onto a new marketing term, "craftsmanship". They now charge the same clients, even more money, to teach them…
Re: Agile is a Sham
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Spoken like a true cowboy programmer who can't collaborate his way out of a wet paper bag and blames process when a team he's part of fails because of that...
Funny thing is, both this guy and the author of the TFA touch the same problem in passing: regardless of the process, there are too many incompetent people plaguing our industry. Instead of addressing the problem, managers usually exacerbate it by trying to "fix it" with a "correct process". No process in the universe is going to turn the Infinite Monkey Theorem [1] into solid reality. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
Who's more competent? The person using Agile successfully and getting things done, the guy using no specific development process and getting things done, or the guy writing long blog posts about why he doesn't care for a development process he doesn't understand and doesn't need to participate in if he doesn't enjoy it?
Re: Agile is a Sham
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> [Obligatory plug and disclaimer: Agile professional You sell process for a living. You claim, "After all, it's not like you can have no process at all. Whatever you're doing already is a process." When you said that, you accidentally got something right. Programming is a process. It's the only one that fucking matters if you're a shop that sells software. All the other process comes from snake oil salesmen as yours…
Spoken like a true cowboy programmer who can't collaborate his way out of a wet paper bag and blames process when a team he's part of fails because of that...
Note, we're using small-a agile at my shop and it's working well, but that's because of good people, not because of blind adherence to a process and eschewing individual thought.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what? It doesn't absolve the team of the fact that they're doing Agile incorrectly. Call them whatever you want, they're still Doing It Wrong.
The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy gave the most succinct advice for how to fly. You fall down and miss the ground. The upon reading this and in the absence of any native examples of flying animals the pelzo decided to directly follow this grand advice. After 100 billion attempts, over a billion broken bones, and hundreds of millions of deaths the great zaxuvex finally discovered that the correct way to do so is to…
Re: Agile is a Sham
#110If the work being done doesn't get re-prioritized, I can pretty accurately judge about 3 months out and very accurately judge a month out. That lets the rest of the company plan fundraising, PR, sales, etc.
This is where I disagree with the author. You do get fairly predictable output out of a group of engineers regardless of their ability as long as they are consistent in their estimates for how long something will take (it doesn't matter if they over or underestimate, just that they do it consistently). You just won't like the results if they are mediocre.
I really want to stress how important the whole self-learning and re-adjustment part of the process is (if someone doesn't scream at least once during a retrospective, they're probably just going through the motions.) While I've run "scrum" for 10 years, the details of how each worked were pretty different depending on the teams involved.
That said, I tend to hire self-managing, self-learning engineers which scrum works beautifully for. I also am completely comfortable with delegating away large amounts of authority especially given the type of people I hire.