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Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

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Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#101

Post by lemper »

twic wrote: post #100

The author has written their own HTTP server rather than using the one provided with the JDK. They need to have a really, really good reason to do this, and i haven't seen such a reason reason documented anywhere. Other, much larger, web frameworks provide their own HTTP servers (or bundle Jetty etc), because they can make them more scalable, or more featureful, or support protocols the JDK one doesn't. But i don't t…

> You will be hard-pressed to find another modern project as obsessively minimalistic. ... This follows self-imposed constraints, predicated on a belief that smaller and lighter is long-term better.

the reason: obsession and self-imposed constraints.

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#102

Post by lemper »

scoot wrote: post #57
KronisLV wrote: post #46

The size statistics page is super cool: https://github.com/byronka/minum/blob/master/docs/size_compa... Reasoning this way about software and dependencies more often seems like a good thing, just so we're aware of what we're actually getting into, especially with projects that use npm. I actually hadn't heard of Javalin before, which also seems nice: https://javalin.io/ Aside from that, I've also had good experiences…

3,757 what? KB, MB, GB, TB, PB, LOC, hours to download?

> 3,757 what?

3,757 of reading comprehension.

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#103

Post by peoplefromibiza »

KronisLV wrote: post #46

The size statistics page is super cool: https://github.com/byronka/minum/blob/master/docs/size_compa... Reasoning this way about software and dependencies more often seems like a good thing, just so we're aware of what we're actually getting into, especially with projects that use npm. I actually hadn't heard of Javalin before, which also seems nice: https://javalin.io/ Aside from that, I've also had good experiences…

> Reasoning this way about software and dependencies more often seems like a good thing

except I can build the usual Twitter clone in 15 minutes in a couple hundreds lines of code, but then the question is: is it really doing the same thing Twitter does (did at this point)?

minimal is good and we all should strive for minimal amount of code strictly necessary, but I'm not sure that 73 lines of code cover every edge corner of templating that Mustache covers or that in 152 lines of code it is possible to replicate PostgreSQL...

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#104

Post by spuz »

There is a severe lack of minimal web frameworks available in Java so I appreciate the effort behind this project. Would it be possible to separate the database and templating packages into separate libraries? For example, could I used Minum with JDBI for the db library and Thymeleaf for templating?

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#105

Post by SillyUsername »

croo wrote: post #97
SillyUsername wrote: post #91

I built my bread and butter with Java and Spring for ~20+ years, and I can safely say whilst commendable to reduce the bloat, it's the language itself which is bloated af. Features bolted on late like function pointers (sorry lambda functions, which are effectively delegates, something they said they'd never do https://web.archive.org/web/20080127045532/java.sun.com/docs... ), too many deprecated APIs, keywords that…

Java is 28 year old, Typescript is 10. Give it another 20 year and similar patterns will emerge as the language matures.

True, but imho at some point people need to let go of legacy code because of the maintenance headache and start again, same is true for the whole eco system. I fully expect if I'm still alive in another 10 I'll be choosing something other than TS as a main language (fwiw I still do Java).

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#106

Post by 7ep »

spuz wrote: post #104

There is a severe lack of minimal web frameworks available in Java so I appreciate the effort behind this project. Would it be possible to separate the database and templating packages into separate libraries? For example, could I used Minum with JDBI for the db library and Thymeleaf for templating?

yes, certainly you could.

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#107

Post by 7ep »

jabradoodle wrote: post #95
7ep wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are locks around those - for example, writeLock

I mean race conditions between the operations, e.g. an update followed by a delete: 1. update x in memory 2. delete x in memory 3. update fn checks for file on disk 4. delete x from disk 5. update x on disk Is this not possible and you end up with different state in memory and on disk.

hmmm. it does seem possible. Let me look into that, thanks!

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#108

Post by adrianmsmith »

One way in which this could be slightly more minimal is to remove the mvnw wrapper.

Honestly if you want to do development on a Java/Maven project, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have Java and Maven installed. The wrapper adds three directory entries to the top-level repo directory, and is lots of copy/pasted code.

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#109

Post by 7ep »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #108

One way in which this could be slightly more minimal is to remove the mvnw wrapper. Honestly if you want to do development on a Java/Maven project, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have Java and Maven installed. The wrapper adds three directory entries to the top-level repo directory, and is lots of copy/pasted code.

it’s all a balance. i’m obsessive, yeah, but i’m also trying to have a bit of balance for the bigger picture to each choice. if you look back a few commits you’ll see where i wasn’t even using maven, just GNU Make! But i was convinced over time that taking a more conventional route for that would yield better returns.

Re: Show HN: Minum – A minimal Java web framework

#110

Post by twic »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #108

One way in which this could be slightly more minimal is to remove the mvnw wrapper. Honestly if you want to do development on a Java/Maven project, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have Java and Maven installed. The wrapper adds three directory entries to the top-level repo directory, and is lots of copy/pasted code.

It's absolutely unreasonable to expect that, and the wrapper should stay. I don't have Maven installed anywhere, and i don't have Gradle on the global path, because i work on projects which require different versions of Gradle.

Saying that removing this would make the project more minimal seems deeply confused to me. Minimalism is not measured in the number of directory entries at the top level, but by the amount of stuff the user has to understand. Taking the wrappers out does not reduce that.

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