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Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

benchmarks.llmonitor.com

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Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#101
post #12

> Sally (a girl) has 3 brothers. Each brother has 2 sisters. How many sisters does Sally have? The site reports every LLM as getting this wrong. But GPT4 seems to get it right for me: > Sally has 3 brothers. Since each brother has 2 sisters and Sally is one of those sisters, the other sister is the second sister for each brother. So, Sally has 1 sister.

I confirm GPT-4 solves this correctly. Makes me immediately doubt everything else in the article...

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#102
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be trained on this question or a variant of it.

It's certainly RLHFed. All of the logic puzzles I use for evaluation that used to fail months ago now pass no problem and I've even had a hard time modifying them to fail.

This is sort of a bummer because it’s not actually an improvement to the model, but just a patch job to artificially inflate performance. All it does is make true evaluation more difficult. Classic “you get what you measure”.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#103
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be trained on this question or a variant of it.

It's certainly RLHFed. All of the logic puzzles I use for evaluation that used to fail months ago now pass no problem and I've even had a hard time modifying them to fail.

Seems like we are going back from „compute/scale is the new oil“ to „your curated fine-tuning and user interaction dataset is the new oil“ again

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#104

Despite the hype about LLMs, many of the answers are pretty terrible. The 12-bar blues progressions seem mostly clueless. The question is will any of these ever get significantly better with time, or are they mostly going to stagnate?

It's like most new technologies. In the beginning there are only a few instances that really stand out, and many with issues.

I remember back in like 2011 or 2012 I wanted to use an SSD for a project in order to spend less time dealing with disk seeks. My internet research suggested that there were a number of potential problems with most brands, but that the Intel Extreme was reliable.

So I specified that it must be only that SSD model. And it was very fast and completely reliable. Pretty expensive also, but not much compared to the total cost of the project.

Then months later a "hardware expert" was brought on and they insisted that the SSD be replaced by a mechanical disk because supposedly SSDs were entirely unreliable. I tried to explain about the particular model being an exception. They didn't buy it.

If you just lump all of these together as LLMs, you might come to the conclusion that LLMs are useless for code generation. But you will notice if you look hard that OpenAIs models are mostly nailing the questions.

That's why right now I only use OpenAI for code generation. But I suspect that Falcon 180B may be something to consider. Except for the operational cost.

I think OpenAI's LLMs are not the same as most LLMs. I think they have a better model architecture and much, much more reinforcement tuning than any open source model. But I expect other LLMs to catch up eventually.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#105
post #87
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs are deterministic. However to make them more "creative", the outputs of the LLM can be sampled using something called temperature that adds some randomness. You can set the temperature to 0 and it will be deterministic. Having said that, GPT4 is not deterministic even at 0 temperature, either because of a bug in their implementation, or because of some load balancing among their alleged mixture of experts.

This was interesting to me, so I dug a bit further. This gives a bit more context behind why: https://community.openai.com/t/observing-discrepancy-in-comp... Quote below: Even with a greedy decoding strategy, small discrepancies regarding floating point operations lead to divergent generations. In simpler terms: when the top-two tokens have very similar log-probs, there’s a non-zero probability of choosing the least…

As OpenAI I would be so horribly uncomfortable about this that making it deterministic would be one of my top priorities. How can they sleep at night?!

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that people are already firing real human workers to replace them with worse but cheaper LLMs, I'd argue that we're not talking about a competing technology, but that the competition is simply not firing your workforce. And, as an obligate customer of many large companies, you should be in favor of that as well. Most companies already automate, poorly, a great deal of customer service work; let us hope they do…

But they're only firing humans in specific cases where LLMs can compete with them. LLMs aren't equally good at all tasks.

Well, no. https://www.psychiatrist.com/news/neda-suspends-ai-chatbot-f...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/30/tech/gannett-ai-experiment-pa...

If the AI is a lot cheaper than a human, then it can make business sense to replace the human even if the AI is not nearly as good.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#107
post #12

> Sally (a girl) has 3 brothers. Each brother has 2 sisters. How many sisters does Sally have? The site reports every LLM as getting this wrong. But GPT4 seems to get it right for me: > Sally has 3 brothers. Since each brother has 2 sisters and Sally is one of those sisters, the other sister is the second sister for each brother. So, Sally has 1 sister.

OpenAI really ought to provide some sort of hash of the model to be included with stuff like this. Right now there's no way to know if the results are comparable. As an extreme example it's possible that they're not even running the model for this question and are just opportunistically feeding back canned responses.

That is, we know that OpenAI are saving the responses, it's not unlikely that they train on bad responses.

It's the same problem as GPU benchmarks in the olden days, when drivers would detect the usage pattern of the benchmark and enable special optimizations that boosted the benchmark.

Re: Asking 60 LLMs a set of 20 questions

#110
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t expect an LLM to get this right unless it had been trained on a solution. Am I wrong to think that? Are LLMs in the future going to be able to “think through” actual logic problems?

This is the whole point of the breakthrough related to the emergence of cognitive capabilities of LLMs. They are literally Markov chains. No one expected it to happen to this degree, but here we are.

Almost kind of proves ideas shouldn’t be copyrightable.
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