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New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

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Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#101

Post by vikramkr »

jejeyyy77 wrote: post #97
peeters wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of policy should mean that in any court case where a customer's version of events/conversations differs from Tesla's, the customer is assumed to be telling the truth until definitely proven otherwise. The legal liability of this policy should be so great that no sane company would have this policy over just creating a paper trail in the first place.

lol, thats not how it works at all.

I think that's why the parent comment was using the word "should" a lot

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#102

Post by checkyoursudo »

candiddevmike wrote: post #90
checkyoursudo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful of your jurisdiction. In some places, the act itself of secret recording can be a criminal offence. In that case, you will want to include the possibility of prison in your cost-benefit analysis. E.g., Germany: StGB 201 § 201 Verletzung der Vertraulichkeit des Wortes https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__201.html In some places, secret recordings are useless as evidence (e.g., two-party consent states…

I can't help but think secret recording laws are there to protect the elite more than the common person...

I think it still depends on local circumstances.

For example, in Germany, a lot of the privacy culture (and therefore, laws) came about because of how the secret police terrorised the common people, for example, using secret recordings and worse (e.g., secret evidence).

But in other places, sure, I would agree with you.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#103

Post by checkyoursudo »

zyberzero wrote: post #99
checkyoursudo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful of your jurisdiction. In some places, the act itself of secret recording can be a criminal offence. In that case, you will want to include the possibility of prison in your cost-benefit analysis. E.g., Germany: StGB 201 § 201 Verletzung der Vertraulichkeit des Wortes https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__201.html In some places, secret recordings are useless as evidence (e.g., two-party consent states…

It's legal in Sweden to record secretly as long as you are one of the parties in the recording.

Yeah, a good nuance that my original comment did not capture. Thanks. I edited my original to try to make what I meant clearer.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#104

Post by specialist »

There's a learning curve parable about the fastest way to learn how to make quality clay pots.

Team A focuses on making 1 perfect pot. Specifications, research, process, testing, verification, etc. They get pretty close with their initial pots, but they struggle to scale up.

Team B just starts making pots. As fast they can. Make incremental tiny improvements. Most pots are total losses. But they do manage to start making pretty good pots. And they hit scale.

Which approach is better?

--

Tesla's QA/QC will not improve, stabilize until their rate of change slows down. They are hellbent on scaling up (20m vehicles, build out charging network, etc) while reducing costs (new tech, fewer parts, etc).

A lot of mistakes will be made.

In the future, I'd consider buying a budget (~$25k?) Tesla vehicle. Maybe after they ship a few million.

Hopefully, we'll have many options to choose from (BYD, Kia, etc).

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#105

Post by latchkey »

nimajneb wrote: post #93
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's to stop the victim from recording evidence, accepting the replacement car, and submitting said evidence anonymously to the media and / or consumer protection and / or the car safety institutions? Are NDAs like that actually enforceable?

My bet is that becomes a scenerio where the party with the most money for lawyers wins. If it was me, I would have almost no money for lawyers.

No money for lawyers, before or after you spent $100k on a car?

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#106

Post by samstave »

Brings "Move Fast and Break Things" to a ludicrous new level.

-

Is this just one vehicle, or systemic? If there is one instance like this in a space vehicle - wouldnt you immediately go and inspect EVERY SINGLE space vehicle you've ever made that's flying around in space to make sure they don't crash into all the other things flying around in space?

--

Also, my Aunt's best friend (can't recall his name) was the designer for the original electrical harness for the very first tesla roadsters... I only met him a few times, at parties at my aunts house, but I do recall him to be 'pretty hacky' (in a good way) and he told me all about it, though I recall very little now, but I am sure a lot of the maverick hacker dna from the original team still exists?

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#107

Post by adionionio »

viknesh wrote: post #6

If this vehicle were truly unsafe to drive (according to US safety standards), what legal recourse would an individual consumer have to have this fixed? Unless the user gets in an accident, is there a way to actually prove the frame is structurally defective?

Lawyers prove things in court for a living. They wouldn't have any trouble proving the frame being cracked nearly in half is a defect.

It probably wouldn't get to court, though. The government deals with lemons all the time. Every state has ways to get lemon buyers relief quickly and at minimal expense.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#108

Post by ozr »

sixothree wrote: post #84
adionionio wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is legal where you live, you might want to get in the habit of secretly recording business dealings. I always have a recorder in my pocket when dealing with more than a few hundred dollars.

Is it true that if a business states that “calls may be recorded” then no matter where you live, it’s legal to record the call as well.

Yes. The most aggressive consent requirement for recording is 'two-party' consent, where the both people on the call need to be aware it's being recorded. If you say "this is/may be(ing) recorded" then both parties are aware.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#109

Post by chrisco255 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #86
drewg123 wrote: post #64

Sounds like not much has changed since 2015. A good friend ordered a new Model S in 2015. It arrived with a "squeak" that turned out to be due to missing welds in structural components of the chassis. They wanted him to sign an NDA to get a replacement vehicle (which he refused to do, both on principle, and because he'd talked to friends about it already). So he was forced to keep his vehicle, which was then repaired…

Who's to stop the victim from recording evidence, accepting the replacement car, and submitting said evidence anonymously to the media and / or consumer protection and / or the car safety institutions? Are NDAs like that actually enforceable?

It would be a weird play for anyone to sign such a thing. Most states in the U.S. have lemon laws that prevent maufacturers from selling such vehicles. A manufacturer only gets a certain number of attempts at repairs (usually 3 for new cars) on new vehicles or a limited time frame to fix them before they must offer a full replacement.

Re: New images and video confirm Austin-made Tesla model Y has cracked front casting

#110

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

drewg123 wrote: post #64

Sounds like not much has changed since 2015. A good friend ordered a new Model S in 2015. It arrived with a "squeak" that turned out to be due to missing welds in structural components of the chassis. They wanted him to sign an NDA to get a replacement vehicle (which he refused to do, both on principle, and because he'd talked to friends about it already). So he was forced to keep his vehicle, which was then repaired…

> And this is how they treated their early adopters that were paying $100K in 2015 for their higher end cars.

And yet it didn't stop anyone from buying Teslas... It's almost as if they knew they could get away with murder.

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