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90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

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101–110 of 190 posts

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#101
post #28

i think the bigger issue is probably that the paper straws are about an order of magnitude higher in mass, virtually 100% organic chemicals, and so represent about an order of magnitude higher resource consumption the bigger issue than that is that disposable straws, even after that order-of-magnitude increase in impact, are an absolutely insignificant issue in ecological terms and yet have somehow become a political…

Sources needed. This study says paper straws uses slightly less energy and emits about the same CO2 as a plastic one: https://www.appropedia.org/HSU_straw_analysis#:~:text=A%20si... . Even if that’s not the case, “resource usage” is not the right metric to optimize for, this cost-focused mentality is exactly how we ended up with plastic [literally] everywhere. Hundreds of billions of plastic straws are thrown away ev…

probably it's good to have plastic everywhere if it decreases environmental damage

the hsu analysis is wrong because it's omitting the energy consumed by growing the trees; it rates "craft paper" as 12.6 kJ/g, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#In_chemical_rea... burning wood produces 18 MJ/kg = 18 kJ/g, which is to say, more energy than that is still available in the end product, without even taking into account the "embodied" energy dissipated in processing

the energy consumed by the tree in growing is about 20× larger than this, 300–400 kJ per gram of wood, which is close to 700 kJ per gram of paper, because about half the tree is lignin, which is digested in the papermaking process and then discharged into waterways

it does give a reasonably plausible (if misleadingly precise) figure of 95.4 kJ/g for the polypropylene straws

also, it incorrectly compares 200-mg polypropylene straws against 200-mg paper straws. but paper straws are, as everyone knows, enormously thicker than polypropylene straws of the same level of durability; even with the accounting error of omitting the embodied energy of the paper, its conclusion presupposes the opposite of my premise above, which you should have mentioned in your comment (but presumably could not because you had not actually read the study you were citing)

in fact, a typical 6-mm-diameter paper straw made from 330 gsm paper at a length of 200 mm weighs some 1250 mg, roughly 6× as much as the hsu study's 200-mg estimate. a 200-mg paper straw would be 53 gsm; that's like tracing paper. it would collapse immediately if you tried to suck on it

finally, it is not correct that hundreds of billions of plastic straws are thrown away per year, and those that end up in landfills (which is the vast majority) are not a problem at all. nor are they a few % of the total, as you say, but 100× less than that; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_straw#Environmental_i... says, 'In total, they are less than 0.022% of plastic waste emitted to oceans.'

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#102
post #98
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: Misread and assumed 1100 euros / 6 months. Have removed comment

I think you may have misread something; €1131 per month, of which €468 is rent and utilities (in Berlin, so still a good rate). €7.6 euros per week for food is doable, I think, but last time I really tried to optimise that I was at university, in the UK, and it was 2003. (£0.50/day: Lidl instant noodles that they don't even sell any more, Quaker oats packs that aren't sold here, skimmed milk, dried fruit in the oats;…

Apologies I did misread - removed original comment.

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#106

Why does every drink need a straw, anyway?

Many of the drinks that would come with such straws are consumed in moving vehicles. In such an environment, sipping from a straw tends to work significantly better than drinking from the rim of a tilted, open-topped cup. While smaller drinks might use a lid with a small gap in it, that just isn't a practical option for larger drinks.

For passengers, maybe, but people really should not be eating and drinking while driving vehicles. Distracted driving kills. Stuffing your face can wait until you pull over or get home.

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#108

Why does every drink need a straw, anyway?

Why does every drink need a straw, anyway?

For my wife, because it ruins her lipstick less than a lid with a hole in it.

I've heard some people say they do it because they think it reduces the effect of the soda/coffee/whatever staining their teeth.

I think it just increases consumption because you don't feel it filling your mouth as much as when you drink from the rim of a cup.

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#109
post #26

I'm sure someone probably feels strongly about this, but I will ask anyway: Do we as a society even need straws? I never use a straw at home. The only time I would consider wanting one would be for a milkshake maybe, due to its thickness making it hard to sip otherwise. I am not anti-straw, just think it is sort of a weird thing for our society to use when I stop to think about it.

[flagged]

Re: 90% of “eco-friendly” paper straws contain traces of toxic forever chemicals

#110
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources needed. This study says paper straws uses slightly less energy and emits about the same CO2 as a plastic one: https://www.appropedia.org/HSU_straw_analysis#:~:text=A%20si... . Even if that’s not the case, “resource usage” is not the right metric to optimize for, this cost-focused mentality is exactly how we ended up with plastic [literally] everywhere. Hundreds of billions of plastic straws are thrown away ev…

probably it's good to have plastic everywhere if it decreases environmental damage the hsu analysis is wrong because it's omitting the energy consumed by growing the trees; it rates "craft paper" as 12.6 kJ/g, but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#In_chemical_rea... burning wood produces 18 MJ/kg = 18 kJ/g, which is to say, more energy than that is still available in the end product , without…

I’m not surprised you replied in less time than it takes to read the first paragraph. The study is about embedded energy, so yes one assumes it does account for energy used growing trees (remember the solar energy they use is free), unless you have evidence to the contrary?

I can’t even start understanding that logic. The whole reason we’re having this discussion is that we know the environment, especially marine life, is being ravaged by plastic waste.

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