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Common mistakes in salary negotiation

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Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#101

Post by dclowd9901 »

ntac wrote: post #5
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #2

How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews with companies that have no intention of paying you what you expect without disclosing some form of salary range upfront? I've generally taken what I want to make in the role and added 20% to it as a starting point. While this might limit me, it also keeps me from doing 100 onsite interviews only to discover their max is 2/3 of my expected comp.

I ask the recruiter what the salary range is. If they refuse to say, I tell them to get back to me when they know what the range is. I'm not going to waste my time if they want to play games like being secretive about the pay.

Since many people here lack the skills to coax this into a non-confrontational exchange, you would say:

“I understand that you’ll need time research to give a meaningful answer, so let’s reconnect once you’ve been able to put together a range. Thanks!”

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#102

Post by xyzelement »

treprinum wrote: post #30
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #2

How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews with companies that have no intention of paying you what you expect without disclosing some form of salary range upfront? I've generally taken what I want to make in the role and added 20% to it as a starting point. While this might limit me, it also keeps me from doing 100 onsite interviews only to discover their max is 2/3 of my expected comp.

They will tell you what you want to hear and still low-ball you at the very end to try the sunk cost fallacy on you.

The sunk cost goes both ways. The company has likewise spent a lot of time and effort interviewing you and if they are extending you an offer and you say no, the process starts over for them.

Especially if you have a job already, when they want to hire you is when you have the maximum leverage.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#103

Post by victor9000 »

irrational wrote: post #90

I work for a Fortune 100 company. Years ago they wanted to make sure that everyone in the same job was making the same amount of money (they were especially trying to make sure women were making as much as men). So they had an outside consulting group look at everyone’s salaries and adjusted them as needed to make sure they were all the same within $1. I ended up getting a $15k bump. They review it again every year t…

It sounds like a great way to miss out on talent that can command a salary higher than the average, while simultaneously attracting talent for whom this is a good deal.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#104

Post by Scoring6931 »

Supermancho wrote: post #61

I feel like these "tips" are from some kind of weird subculture I've never been part of. I've used 3rd party recruiters for almost 20 years and negotiation is always pretty transparent. I want X (which is more than I am currently making) and the recruiter finds a good fit. Sometimes the role is well above what I asked for. Unless it's a boutique startup, I'm going to get into the role and find out right-quick what th…

It is very FAANG oriented (and US oriented at the same time).

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#105

Post by s0rce »

codegeek wrote: post #97

You can have this conversation: You: Ok recruiter, is there a budget/range set aside for this position ? Recruiter: Yes it is $x-$y You: Ok I can work with that. My expectation is ideally $x+ z% Scenario 2: Recruiter: Hey, what are your salary requirements ? You: Ok recruiter, is there a budget/range set aside for this position ? Recruiter: Or goes "No but I am interested in learning what is your requirement ideally"…

Mine almost always goes like this:

Recruiter: How much are looking for?

Me: Could you please provide a range for the role?

Recruiter: no, please let us know what you want

Me: relatively high but not crazy number

Recruiter: No, that's too high

Me (in my head): why did you ask me then

Me: Ok, please let me know what is reasonable

Recruiter: some number that may or may not be acceptable

Me: asks for a bit more if number was close to acceptable

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#106

Post by HellDunkel »

t0mas88 wrote: post #49
TimPC wrote: post #31

The hard part about these tips is they will lead you to waste a lot of time. Most companies have no real perspective on if they are in the 60th percentile by comp or the 95th percentile by comp for a role. Some companies will also slot you at different levels based on a number of factors including different levels meaning different things at different companies. If you're trying to get your first FAANG job and genera…

In my experience hiring, we know the benchmark numbers for the roles. Because we have current employees in those roles and we want to understand whether we're paying them fairly. Not out of some kind of deep kindness, but because otherwise they'll at some point get a better offer and leave. But it differs across the company where we aim to be. For some roles we aim for 50th percentile, while for other areas we delibe…

I am curious. Given you have identified an underpaid employee and want to make sure to keep her/him. Do you actively approach the employee and set the salary straight or do you just watch closely and say yes to the next pay raise?

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#108

Post by jgilias »

I have a very simple rule of thumb that has worked exceptionally well for me. I never reveal salary expectations.

I learned this lesson many moons ago after not getting a job I really looked forward to because my honest expectations were too high, and later ending up in a situation where I got paid 70% of what a friend earned for exactly the same role because I low balled myself.

After those experiences I just say that if they’re willing to make an offer, we’ll go from there. If it’s a company who can’t work with this approach, I don’t want to work there anyway.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#109

Post by waisbrot »

codegeek wrote: post #97

You can have this conversation: You: Ok recruiter, is there a budget/range set aside for this position ? Recruiter: Yes it is $x-$y You: Ok I can work with that. My expectation is ideally $x+ z% Scenario 2: Recruiter: Hey, what are your salary requirements ? You: Ok recruiter, is there a budget/range set aside for this position ? Recruiter: Or goes "No but I am interested in learning what is your requirement ideally"…

Sure. Some candidates are extremely experienced in negotiation and know exactly how much they are worth. Those people should absolutely name numbers from the start to avoid having their time wasted. But those people also know who they are and know that they don't need to read advice about negotiation.

Most candidates have no idea what they're worth. Here's what I imagine is happening behind the scenes in your scenarios, assuming a normal candidate:

Scenario 1: Recruiter: Great news. The candidate was happy with the offer and I didn't even need to ask for permission to offer higher comp. It's always extra time and work when I have to ask for $x+$y+$z.

Scenario 2: Recruiter: Ha ha. This candidate has no idea what the market rate is. They must only be interviewing at crap companies. We'll offer the bottom of the pay band and they'll be overjoyed because it's 10% higher than they were asking for.

Scenario 3: Exactly the same as scenario 2, except there was a brief moment when the recruiter wondered if the candidate knew how much they could get.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#110

Post by xyzelement »

andrewfromx wrote: post #24

the best part is the "exactly what to say" at the end: "At this point, I don’t feel equipped to throw out a number because I’d like to find out more about the opportunity first – right now, I simply don’t have the data to be able to say something concrete. If you end up making me an offer, I would be more than happy to iterate on it if needed and figure out something that works. I promise not to accept other offers u…

I don't think how you say it is as critical as understanding the concept. When I am interviewing, I am usually talking to a few companies at the same time, so my answer is usually "While I don't want to throw out a number, just wanted to be transparent that I am talking to a few companies and have/expect to have another couple of offers before I make a decision. Obviously how those offers come in will be a factor in my expectations and I would of course let you know if we need to work on the numbers. So right now I would just be very happy to see your starting number and go from there"

maybe less words than that, so it's literally the mental model in my head. Repeating something like a robot is probably better than blurting out the number but having a real game plan and treating the recruiter as a partner is probably better.

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