Live data from Hacker News

The OpenTF Manifesto

opentf.org

101–110 of 392 posts

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#101

I appreciate the letter and trying to work with Hashicorp -- I used to have a ton of respect for Hashicorp. But honestly... at this point... ...just fork it into a foundation. Don't wait for Hashicorp's response. I get wanting to have the appearance of working with Hashicorp, but we've been shown again, and again, and again, and a-fucking-gain that private corporations cannot be trusted to maintain public goods. Only…

It was never a public good.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#102
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine a future CTO trying to pick the IaC tools for their company. They see Terraform as an option, but then learn there are multiple forks, licensing questions, and a big battle happening in the community. What do they do? I truly believe that a CTO who sees Terraform as an option and who isn't scared off by the BSL, but then has all of these other concerns, exists only in fantasy.

Lots of people still using elastic, mongo, and redis. What's different about this one?

Just went with Elastic cloud after evaluating both Elasticsearch and OpenSearch. It was an easy choice to stick with the incumbent/creator that I was familiar with. No complaints so far.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#103
post #49
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Terraform doesn't have a test suite Patently false. Terraform has had an excellent test suite since 2014.

Sorry, this may be a miscommunication. Terraform itself has a test suite, yeah, but it doesn't have a testing framework that users of the language can use to test their own code. To make a python metaphor, if cpython had a testing suite but pytest didn't exist then people wouldn't be able to test their own python code. That's kind of the situation with Terraform right now- you can't test your code using just the Terr…

This is not testing?

https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/cli/commands/plan

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift. Even though I strongly believe the OpenTF fork could open up incredible possibilities for the community (I could go on and on about it), it is an equivalent of a civil war. It doesn't serve the community and our only interest is in the continued strength of the community that we continue to build for. Based on my immense respect for what's been built under Hashi's umbrella I'd ra…

Hashicorp isn't going to budge here. The same argument that you've made about Terraform being the underpinnings and needing to be open-sourced can be applied to their other important products like Vault, Consul and Nomad as well. The ecosystem of those three is plainly a direct competitor to Kubernetes which is open-source. There's really no move for them to make here. It's unfortunate.

Tons of organizations run vault and consul as part of their k8s ecosystem so they don't directly compete. The vault CSI driver might be the single most installed CSI driver across all the orgs I've worked for

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#105
post #37
post #17

>Imagine if the creators of Linux [] suddenly switched to a non-open-source license that only permitted non-competitive usage. Linux cannot even successfully switch from GPL2 to GPL3 because of the sheer number of contributors and the fact that not all of them have transferred their copyright ownership to any given organization. This patchwork of different copyright owners has historically been seen as a potential we…

I thought Linus and other believed GPLv2 was fine and the improvements of GPLv3 did not outweigh the potential problems introduced by it. It never came to a point where all authors were asked to agree, or sign away their ownership.

We changed the license[1] of a project which had 10 contributors, and we got every single one of them to do an Acked-by (by email) which took some weeks. That was on the advice of our lawyers. Can't imagine the impossible hassle of doing the same for something like Linux.

[1] https://gitlab.com/nbdkit/nbdkit/-/commit/952ffe0fc7685ea775...

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#106
I don't get the argument that there's legal ambiguity. It was Mozilla licensed through some version; as long as you use that version it will be fine, right?

Obviously, there's the argument that Hashicorp might sue you even for that, but it feels like the reductio ad absurdum that any company can sue you for anything, and not remotely plausible.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#107

I appreciate the letter and trying to work with Hashicorp -- I used to have a ton of respect for Hashicorp. But honestly... at this point... ...just fork it into a foundation. Don't wait for Hashicorp's response. I get wanting to have the appearance of working with Hashicorp, but we've been shown again, and again, and again, and a-fucking-gain that private corporations cannot be trusted to maintain public goods. Only…

It was never a public good.

> In economics, a public good (also referred to as a social good or collective good)[1] is a good that is both non-excludable and non-rivalrous. For such goods, users cannot be barred from accessing or using them for failing to pay for them. Also, use by one person neither prevents access of other people nor does it reduce availability to others.

Any free open source product qualifies as a public good. It is free for all to use, and one person using it does not exclude anyone else from using.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#108
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people still using elastic, mongo, and redis. What's different about this one?

Just went with Elastic cloud after evaluating both Elasticsearch and OpenSearch. It was an easy choice to stick with the incumbent/creator that I was familiar with. No complaints so far.

We just went back to TF after giving Pulumi a try. Prefer declarative syntax for infra and more abuse of Yaml ("fn::..." here) is not what I'm after.

We are working on wrapping TF in CUE since you can CUE->JSON->TF

https://github.com/hofstadter-io/cuelm

Many more CUE experiments are going on in the devops space

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#110
The weaponisation of open source by the cloud vendors combined with devops culture encouraging only paying for operations and commoditising development is going to lead to constant pointless migrations of this kind (such as Docker/podman etc.)

Devops people need to find a viable way to reward the developers of the tools they make a living from operating. Failing that they will wake up finding no one is willing to make them or that those that do have an ulterior motive.

Post reply on HN