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Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#101

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jraby3 wrote: post #97
newsclues wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This aligns with my similar theory (lack of O2 leads to depression) that was born from observations of yoga, meditation and walking all forced people to breath more air through breath work, exercises or going outside, lead to better mental health outcomes. I am going to assume that in urban vs rural areas that is a similar effect from air pollution. But all my doctors have been inclined to give me pills for depressio…

I understood that rural air is significantly worse than urban due to all the pesticides.

Worse than urban air with auto pollution? I'd want to see a source for that...

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#102

Post by boesboes »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #101
jraby3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood that rural air is significantly worse than urban due to all the pesticides.

Worse than urban air with auto pollution? I'd want to see a source for that...

Yeah, ppl on the ring road of Amsterdam live 10 years shorter afaik, for instance

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#103

Post by crznp »

misja111 wrote: post #68
brigadier132 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume that higher altitudes would have more intense winters that then result in people staying indoors and isolated for longer periods of time? I would guess that altitude and longitude are not correlated globally (at least I don't know why they would be) but in the US I generally associate altitude with snow.

Countries like Finland and Iceland are consistently in the top 5 of happiest countries in the world. Of course that has many non-related reasons, but the effect of intense winters can't be too bad.

Finland and Iceland also have some of the highest suicide rates in Europe. It seems that the correlation between happiness (or well-being) and suicide is complex.

Which makes sense: it can be isolating if everyone around you seems to be thriving and you aren't.

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#104

Post by AnimalMuppet »

irrational wrote: post #77
cosmicvarion wrote: post #4

I haven't dug into their controls, but it seems to me that higher altitude may be associated with remoteness.

Are Denver and SLC considered remote? My own city is about at sea level, but by car the next closest cities are 3 hours to the north, 6 hours to the east, and 9 hours to the south. I’d say we are more remote, despite being at a much lower elevation.

Denver and SLC are reasonably big cities. If you need, for example, a big-city childrens' hospital, they have them.

Then you start to drive out of town, and there is N O T H I N G. I mean, from SLC, there's Ogden and Provo, maybe Park City. From Denver, there's Colorado Springs and Fort Collins. Once you get past those, it's a long way to the next anywhere.

So are they isolated? Depends on how you define isolation. Does that particular kind of isolation affect depression and/or suicide? No clue.

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#106

Post by [deleted] »

renewiltord wrote: post #98
newsclues wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This aligns with my similar theory (lack of O2 leads to depression) that was born from observations of yoga, meditation and walking all forced people to breath more air through breath work, exercises or going outside, lead to better mental health outcomes. I am going to assume that in urban vs rural areas that is a similar effect from air pollution. But all my doctors have been inclined to give me pills for depressio…

Urban/rural v suicide relationships are all over the place: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01650... sees opposite relationship in China and Australia, e.g.

[deleted]

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#107

Post by selimthegrim »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #67

Oh boy, this is a favorite topic of mine because I get psychosis over 7000 feet. And it is all about my genetics. I am a lowlander by heritage, a Sami from Finland, and I carry genetic changes in NOS1AP that lower my ability to make nitric oxide at altitude. But the other factor is polymorphisms in GCH1, a gene linked to altitude adaptation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5460084/ See GCH1 is the enzyme…

On a related note, how do you feel about the WaPo headliner today about misappropriation of Sami remains for (anthropological, not even medical) "research"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/interactive/2023/smit...

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#108

Post by qwerasdf5 »

jraby3 wrote: post #97
newsclues wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This aligns with my similar theory (lack of O2 leads to depression) that was born from observations of yoga, meditation and walking all forced people to breath more air through breath work, exercises or going outside, lead to better mental health outcomes. I am going to assume that in urban vs rural areas that is a similar effect from air pollution. But all my doctors have been inclined to give me pills for depressio…

I understood that rural air is significantly worse than urban due to all the pesticides.

Many rural areas do not have farming.

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#109

Post by what-no-tests »

imperio59 wrote: post #87
seltzered_ wrote: post #12

I recall seeing this article from 2014 referring to suicides in Utah ('utah paradox') and how neuroscientist Perry Renshaw was trying to link it to altitude: http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in... which links to another study from 2011: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.201... "Together, the stray statistics and stories about life out west tipped off Renshaw to a common…

Except that whole chemical imbalance theory was thoroughly debunked earlier this year as not being the cause of depression, just a marketing gimmick used to sell more anti depressants by pharma companies... "The serotonin theory of depression has been one of the most influential and extensively researched biological theories of the origins of depression. Our study shows that this view is not supported by scientific e…

THIS needs to be spread around much more broadly.

[UPDATE]: Looks like I'm getting downvoted by people who cling to their meds. Try physical activity and adjusting your self-talk. Try having goals and making steady progress toward them. What you need doesn't come from a pill, it comes from living life.

Re: Positive association between altitude and suicide in U.S. counties

#110

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

seltzered_ wrote: post #12

I recall seeing this article from 2014 referring to suicides in Utah ('utah paradox') and how neuroscientist Perry Renshaw was trying to link it to altitude: http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in... which links to another study from 2011: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.201... "Together, the stray statistics and stories about life out west tipped off Renshaw to a common…

For that to be true, you'd need to establish that blood oxygen levels differ significantly across altitude adapted individuals, and I don't believe that this is the case.

Also, when I first moved from Philadelphia to a village in New Mexico at 6000', I remember reading that I should plan on a 3 phase adapative process that would take as much as 9 months to complete. This makes me give less weight to things like the 2005 Marines study that Renshaw cites, which only continued for 90 days.

I should stress that I'm not doubting the statistics, just the proposed mechanism ("low oxygen air"). On the other hand, "varying ability to fully adapt to lower oxygen levels" seems more plausible.

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