Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free • Hacker News Board

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#101

Post by userbinator » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 4:28 AM UTC

RankingMember wrote: post #97

goku12 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the norm. I wonder if the HN population is young enough to have not seen them.

Service manuals being free was the norm? I had to pay for the one for my Japanese motorcycle from 1982 and on every other vehicle I've owned, unless you mean bootlegging on car forums. I don't know anyone who's gotten free service manuals direct from the manufacturer.

You could borrow a physical copy from the local library, which often had a huge number of them.

There might still be automotive service manual torrents floating around with content which was partially a result of my efforts when I was in the "bookz scene" over 2 decades ago.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#102

Post by somerandomqaguy » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 4:28 AM UTC

bastawhiz wrote: post #91

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yeah but there’s nothing to break or fix on a Zero! ...........? Wheel bearings, axle grease, wheel alignment, fork seals, suspension bearings, head bearings, chain/belt, sprockets, brake system (pads, piston, caliper, seals, master cylinder, fluid, rotors), tires, cooling system. Plus the classics of levers, hoses, bent handles bars or forks, stripping bolts, broken kick stands, etc. None of that goes away with an…

Not to be pedantic or invalidate your point, but most (all?) Zero bikes are air cooled, and they have zero hoses. Brakes get like an order of magnitude less wear thanks to regen, and the only fluid is brakes (well, and the battery, but if you find yourself in contact with it, the bike is a loss).

Fair enough on the cooling, but brakes I disagree, at least with my riding style.

I do most my braking with a combination of front and engine braking. I usually don't touch the rear until either I'm close to a full stop or if I'm doing slow speed maneuvers. So unless Zero's got regen on the front wheel, I don't see there being too much different between the two.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#103

Post by notatoad » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 4:33 AM UTC

bastawhiz wrote: post #85

notatoad wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it's more like a cross between a bicycle and motorcycle. and that's kinda the reason that the value proposition for electric motorbikes isn't very good. if you can give up the requirement of "i want to drive on the highway", an electric bicycle is going to do what you need for a fraction of the cost. electric motorbikes lean more towards toys than practical tools, so they're priced like toys.

My FXE goes fifteen over the speed limit on the freeway. There's no universe where that's not good on the highway.

yeah, that's what i'm saying. an FXE is an e-motorbike, not an e-bicycle. if you didn't need highway speed, you could have got a top-tier commuter-style ebike for $3k instead of the $12k an FXE costs.

but i'm sure the FXE is way more fun.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#104

Post by RankingMember » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 4:35 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #101

RankingMember wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Service manuals being free was the norm? I had to pay for the one for my Japanese motorcycle from 1982 and on every other vehicle I've owned, unless you mean bootlegging on car forums. I don't know anyone who's gotten free service manuals direct from the manufacturer.

You could borrow a physical copy from the local library, which often had a huge number of them. There might still be automotive service manual torrents floating around with content which was partially a result of my efforts when I was in the "bookz scene" over 2 decades ago.

One of the bummers of the decline of automotive forums is the reduction in availability of the bootleg copies. So many are wastelands of broken links these days.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#105

Post by jeffbee » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 5:09 AM UTC

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #102

bastawhiz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be pedantic or invalidate your point, but most (all?) Zero bikes are air cooled, and they have zero hoses. Brakes get like an order of magnitude less wear thanks to regen, and the only fluid is brakes (well, and the battery, but if you find yourself in contact with it, the bike is a loss).

Fair enough on the cooling, but brakes I disagree, at least with my riding style. I do most my braking with a combination of front and engine braking. I usually don't touch the rear until either I'm close to a full stop or if I'm doing slow speed maneuvers. So unless Zero's got regen on the front wheel, I don't see there being too much different between the two.

There's nothing tricky about fixing a brake, though. It's a portable skill from one motorcycle to another. Unlike, say, the tolerances for oval and taper of a cylinder.

I get that there's still going to be screws to turn on an electric bike, but that's going to be about what it boils down to: a list of torque specs.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#106

Post by dharmab » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 5:21 AM UTC

zer8k wrote: post #100

koolba wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the rationale for not releasing a manual? To force you to take into a dealer for service? It’s not like they have to make a separate manual. It has to exist for the dealer anyway right?

The $200/hr service charge most european motorcycle dealers charge. There are two things I can't do myself. Particularly, bleeding the ABS (which requires the dealer tool) and re-shimming the engine (which also requires a dealer tool). My local stealership wants exactly $200/hr for every service. An oil change for my motorcycle is $300, a brake job is $650. Mind you parts for these jobs are in the mid-to-low XX's. It…

> Reshimming the engine (once every 15k miles or so) costs a minimum of $1200 going up to $2000 if the engine needs significant adjustment.

Wow, your dealer is really raking their customers. Mine charges about $200 to check valves on a parallel twin.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#107

Post by dharmab » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 5:22 AM UTC

deet wrote: post #92

porknubbins wrote: post #17

Are there any OEMs whose service manuals are hard to find? I restore cars and motorcycles and have never had trouble finding a pdf or hard copy for around $20. Its good that they are doing this though a lot of the secrets I’d want to know about an electric motorcycle are about the ECU when that software is some of the most tightly guarded of any.

I pay like $8/month for access to my 2021 Triumph’s service manual. As far as I know they keep it as an interactive website so that PDFs are hard to make. I haven’t found a good copy yet but it’s also possible that I’m just not as good at searching for pirated content as back in the old torrenting days (or perhaps just less motivated)

PDF export is tricky so I usually take screenshots and transcribe info into my own notebook.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#108

Post by userbinator » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 5:22 AM UTC

RankingMember wrote: post #104

userbinator wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could borrow a physical copy from the local library, which often had a huge number of them. There might still be automotive service manual torrents floating around with content which was partially a result of my efforts when I was in the "bookz scene" over 2 decades ago.

One of the bummers of the decline of automotive forums is the reduction in availability of the bootleg copies. So many are wastelands of broken links these days.

Do you really think automotive forums are in decline?

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#109

Post by LispSporks22 » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 5:29 AM UTC

zer8k wrote: post #100

koolba wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the rationale for not releasing a manual? To force you to take into a dealer for service? It’s not like they have to make a separate manual. It has to exist for the dealer anyway right?

The $200/hr service charge most european motorcycle dealers charge. There are two things I can't do myself. Particularly, bleeding the ABS (which requires the dealer tool) and re-shimming the engine (which also requires a dealer tool). My local stealership wants exactly $200/hr for every service. An oil change for my motorcycle is $300, a brake job is $650. Mind you parts for these jobs are in the mid-to-low XX's. It…

Jesus that is brutal. A dealer tool for bleeding abs? I’m holding onto my KLR forever apparently.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#110

Post by RankingMember » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 5:38 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #108

RankingMember wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the bummers of the decline of automotive forums is the reduction in availability of the bootleg copies. So many are wastelands of broken links these days.

Do you really think automotive forums are in decline?

I can only speak for the ones I visit, which are primarily for Japanese vehicles: there's been a noticeable decline in post frequency and the info that is there has gone stale/is full of broken pic references/links.

On one of them, it's gotten comically bad, where easily >90% of new posts are from spambots, and it takes days for them to be removed after I report them.

Subreddits and Facebook are much more active comparatively, and that's a bummer in my opinion.