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Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

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Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#101

Post by JohnFen »

dijit wrote: post #94
landemva wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only real solution to this is some kind of legislation that makes it difficult to carry on with business as usual. I have watched the voluntary full body scans at TSA checkpoints for years and have concluded people do not care to opt out of any data collection. The people don't care, or how many people do you see opting out of full body scans at TSA? People gleefully pose for TSA's new and voluntary facial reco…

Ha! I get so much shit from my partner because I refuse to go through those scanners. I don't make a big scene about it, but it's fun to note how much social pressure there is to just follow. Most Airports are actually totally fine with the opt-out, except the British ones for some reason. "You won't always be able to opt out y'know" - yes mate, but then I probably won't fly anymore.

> "You won't always be able to opt out y'know"

What a strange thing to say. Maybe not, but you are able to opt out right now, and that's what matters most at that moment.

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#102

Post by JohnFen »

Dalewyn wrote: post #53
daneel_w wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though that wasn't their statement. Of course there's value in it. The question is if it's value for the customer or just plain abuse.

If the product improves quality of life for the user, yes there is value for the user. Everyone likes better software, right? The problem is, of course, that products seldom improve with use of telemetry, but that is beside the point.

> If the product improves quality of life for the user, yes there is value for the user.

"Value" can only be properly understood as "Benefit - Cost". If the cost is greater than the benefit, the value is negative.

> Everyone likes better software, right?

But does everyone have the same definition of "better"?

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#103

Post by JohnFen »

Dalewyn wrote: post #64
AnonCoward42 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point then? Justifying telemetry? Because the value for the user is at least very close to zero, but the privacy implications are not.

The question posed was why Intel would want to track what websites you visited for their video drivers. I answered why. That was followed up by asking if telemetry has value for the user. I answered it can. The reality of products generally not improving with telemetry is beside the point. That is a problem with the people using the telemetric data.

> I answered why.

I don't think that you did, though. The data that is gathered by monitoring what websites you go to can be obtained without monitoring what websites you go to. So why do they feel the need to monitor what sites you go to?

My answer to that is "marketing purposes".

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#104

Post by pkulak »

barrysteve wrote: post #57
xnx wrote: post #13

A terrifying side-effect of AI is that everything is now potential "training data" and there's financial incentive to vacuum up any and all possible data. The situation on Windows is much worse than Chrome extensions (which have been attempting this for awhile) because of the near non-existent permission limits on Windows. I was shocked to learn just yesterday that Nvidia drivers were doing this. It feels extremely g…

It goes without saying at this time, an internet connected computer is a privacy liability.

Internet-connected Windows computer.

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#105

Post by JohnFen »

Espionage724 wrote: post #97
soraminazuki wrote: post #68

All the more reason to avoid Windows I guess. MS is busy crippling the user experience in exchange for short-term profits and now this. I'm glad Linux has good driver support and maintainers who would say no to BS like this.

Lmao. Anyone who cares about this likely isn't using Windows to begin with, and has already fallen into some Parabola Trisquel rabbit hole. Microsoft isn't crippling their user experience considering that doesn't benefit them; it's bad-actors cultivating that idea to push people on less-secure platforms, and/or naive Arch Linux first-time installer bros that want to push the idea of a worst desktop experience everywh…

> Microsoft isn't crippling their user experience considering that doesn't benefit them

I have to use Windows at work, and have done so for decades. From where I sit, Microsoft is absolutely crippling the user experience. Every release after Win 7 has been a degradation in that.

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#106

Post by JohnFen »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #71
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #12

The time seems to be getting closer to the ubiquitous need for an 'allow list' for outbound internet connections. OpenSnitch or equivalent (per device) + Pi-Hole / Adguard (per network). Inverse WEI. Sorry, this request fails our Web Environment Integrity validation, you will not be receiving any data from this device.

That used to work in the past with different IPs. Now an IP might have hundreds of DNS records pointing to it. But fine, installing AdGuard works great. But now we're fighting against 2 things: Things smashed together on the same domain, so no longer separate subdomains. And DNS of HTTPS, so we can't even get all our traffic to go over the same DNS server.

> And DNS of HTTPS, so we can't even get all our traffic to go over the same DNS server.

I bet there's a market for something like a user-friendly mitmproxy variant to plug that hole. It might even be able to be a part of pi-hole for pi-hole users.

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#107

Post by landemva »

kube-system wrote: post #99
landemva wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only real solution to this is some kind of legislation that makes it difficult to carry on with business as usual. I have watched the voluntary full body scans at TSA checkpoints for years and have concluded people do not care to opt out of any data collection. The people don't care, or how many people do you see opting out of full body scans at TSA? People gleefully pose for TSA's new and voluntary facial reco…

> how many people do you see opting out of full body scans at TSA They're all in the pre-check line.

An airline put me in precheck a few years ago due to FF status. Now it requires an application to government and fingerprint. And global entry (immigration) wants an eyeball scan. Biometric collection to avoid a TSA massage is not privacy.

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#108

Post by TacticalCoder »

yeck wrote: post #86
nine_k wrote: post #44

The problem is that the driver is closed-source. Even if the driver sent data in a format which is easily inspectable by user, and with only benign-looking data, it would be really hard to prove that something nefarious and underhanded is not being sent instead under that guise.

If you see where the packets are going you might be able to block at the DNS level.

> If you see where the packets are going you might be able to block at the DNS level.

There are many DNS blocklists out there and some of them do indeed block domain names from known telemetry (aka "spying") services. But if some telemetry directly report to specific IP addresses then blocking at the DNS level won't help.

FWIW my firewall blocks some companies' known IP CIDR blocks (like FB/Meta) and my DNS (unbound) blocks all known malware, porn and telemetry services (among others).

In addition to that the only process allowed to emit ongoing traffic to port 443 is the process running my browser.

All hope is not lost yet.

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#109

Post by JohnFen »

Espionage724 wrote: post #93

Great! I want Intel to improve the driver stack I use on my hardware, and if information how I use their graphics stack is useful for that, cool. I continue on my usual usage, and Intel gets data on how to improve the experience for free. How does anyone expect software to improve if nobody gives feedback? Ya'll know those website surveys, bug report apps in GPU control panels? If people used those, maybe secret tele…

> If people used those, maybe secret telemetry wouldn't be required.

That argument is simple extortion. Secret telemetry is never required, period.

If people are unwilling to volunteer such data, then the devs simply have to do without. If that means that software won't improve[1], too bad.

[1] Which isn't what that means. Software has always been improving even back when spying on people wasn't a feasible thing to do at scale, so spying is clearly not necessary. It's just cheaper than the old ways.

Re: Intel's GPU Drivers Now Collect Telemetry, Including 'How You Use Your Computer'

#110

Post by yomlica8 »

pkulak wrote: post #104
barrysteve wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes without saying at this time, an internet connected computer is a privacy liability.

Internet-connected Windows computer.

I feel like most people just want to pretend the privacy respecting alternatives don't even exist so they can give up. See the endless parade of excuses about why people can't help but use Chrome still.

The battle is well and truly lost on Windows but the line is mostly being held on linux still.

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