How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance? • Hacker News Board

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#101

Post by jjoonathan » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 3:59 PM UTC

gorjusborg wrote: post #32

bob1029 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about moving out to that area. Building these fabs will do amazing things for the local community & economy. It is also likely the most resilient part of the TX power grid...

Careful. The cost of a fab makes it very difficult for competitors to start up. Working in a field with only a few competitors seems attractive, but you risk specializing in skills that only few businesses worldwide can leverage. I used to work in semiconductors and transitioned to software when I realized how precarious that was.

Using mad physics and computer skillz to change the course of empire? Cool! For a $78k salary in HCOL area? Not Cool!

This was years ago and not TX. I'm sure it has gotten slightly better but what I see on glassdoor still makes me very glad I listened to the job hunting postdocs in nanofab class and steered clear of this career path.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#102

Post by bee_rider » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

overtomanu wrote: post #76

bee_rider wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us only can reply to the first paragraph or so, and the first plot, because of the paywall. So most of the conversation is about the headline.

Below extension will be useful https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

I’d have to check and see how it works. I’m happy to block ads (I’ll render whatever I’m sent however I want), but I wouldn’t want to access content that the publisher didn’t intend to send.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#103

Post by edgyquant » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #64

shubb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the interesting lessons of the past few years is that supply chain lead times are a thing and policy doesn't just happen because central planning says it should. So, if there is a bubble in the chip supply pipeline, auto manufacture doesn't happen. If there is undersupply of precursor chemicals it takes a while to make vaccines at scale... What you are talking about makes me think of the very long lead product…

>One of the interesting lessons of the past few years is that supply chain lead times are a thing and policy doesn't just happen because central planning says it should. The dominant ideology in the US, at least until recently, is that there should be no central planning. The invisible hand of the market was all-knowing and would allocate resources far more efficiently than any human planner. I wouldn't blame central…

That was just a lot of talk. The federal government has been shaping the US economy and its industries since the start. Things like agriculture and energy has always been subsidized. E.g. the offshoring of manufacturing and the newer cultivation of green energy tech are entirely the result of tax and subsidy policies designed to result in these things.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#104

Post by vel0city » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:07 PM UTC

tylerfontaine wrote: post #16

vel0city wrote: post #13

Judging by all the construction I see at the fabs around me, the people I see moving in to get the new jobs working at the fabs or related businesses, I'd say its pretty real to me and those around me. https://www.ti.com/about-ti/company/ti-at-a-glance/manufactu... https://news.ti.com/blog/2022/09/29/tis-new-300-millimeter-w... https://dallasinnovates.com/finisar-considers-3-billion-semi... https://www.dallasnews.com…

Heh. We must live close to each other. I made the same comment with fewer (read: no) sources. Definitely a lot of heavy construction.

Yeah when I saw your comment I figured you were from North Texas.

Hello from Richardson.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#105

Post by mcntsh » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:09 PM UTC

frognumber wrote: post #67

My question: As an American, why should I work in IC fabrication? I'm competing with low-cost Asians who set a cap on my salary. Work conditions, income, and everything else is worse than SWE. I switched away from electronics early in my career, and it seems like a strict win. As much as I believe in on-shoring, I'm not sure those issues can, will, or should be fixed.

Honest question but won't these "low-cost Asians" not be as much of a factor on wages if the fabrications are in the US?

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#106

Post by systemvoltage » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

stanfordkid wrote: post #72

Spooky23 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the worst business to work for. You’ll work 60 hours a week for shitty pay, and be the Yoda of some tool. In 10 years there will be a new magic tool. Then you start learning the Starbucks menu.

Sounds like the ideal type of trade to build a union for?

This will be the end of semiconductor industry.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#107

Post by mbfg » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

isykt wrote: post #17

The world’s largest deposit of ultra pure quartz, which is needed for the very high end processors, is in North Carolina. The renaissance is real, or is about to be.

i read the "The resonance is real"

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#108

Post by jjoonathan » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #63

Spooky23 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the worst business to work for. You’ll work 60 hours a week for shitty pay, and be the Yoda of some tool. In 10 years there will be a new magic tool. Then you start learning the Starbucks menu.

Why can't you learn the next tool? Everyone in a tech field has to retain the ability to learn new things over time. AI might not take our jobs but it will likely change them. I guess it sucks if you have a fear of learning. Admittedly, at first learning a new thing can be kind of uncomfortable, like getting into a cold swimming pool. But once you get over the initial shock and start moving around, it's not so bad.

Because the business needs you to keep putting out fires in the old tool while your younger, cheaper replacement trains on the new tool!

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#109

Post by laidoffamazon » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #13

Judging by all the construction I see at the fabs around me, the people I see moving in to get the new jobs working at the fabs or related businesses, I'd say its pretty real to me and those around me. https://www.ti.com/about-ti/company/ti-at-a-glance/manufactu... https://news.ti.com/blog/2022/09/29/tis-new-300-millimeter-w... https://dallasinnovates.com/finisar-considers-3-billion-semi... https://www.dallasnews.com…

The political valence of this could be significant next year. This is a lot of high paying, high-demand jobs in multiple sectors of the economy from just one of 3 major pillars of the administration's agenda.

Re: How real is America’s chipmaking renaissance?

#110

Post by bonestamp2 » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

ptero wrote: post #94

While not specific to chipmaking, Lyn Alden's latest public newsletter on reshoring is, as always, excellent: https://www.lynalden.com/reshoring/ The relevant point is that while the manufacturing portion is real, successful reshoring also requires skilled labor. Skilled labor for fab production is not something US has now and it takes many years to grow; and it is not clear if the US has the desire and the will to f…

Those are good points, and there's one more. If we want supply chain security, we need to scale up the rest of the ecosystem to go from chips to a packaged products on a shelf. That goes back to your point about fostering the growth... we need to foster the rest of the vertical too.