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Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

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Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#101

Post by aftoprokrustes »

varispeed wrote: post #19
toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

> Living & acting out of compassion (boddhicitta): if your main focus is other not yourself, a huge relief of worries is gone, and meaning arises naturally. Of course here articial part. You'll easily become a victim of people who exploit "caretakers". You'll become an unpaid servant. People need to look after themselves first.

Not necessarily. You can be compasionate to a narcicist manipulator while being perfectly aware that he is trying to manipulate you and not playing hus game. Being compasionate does not means doing everything someone asks for, but trying to understand where they come from, see their actions as their (likely unskillfull) attempt at avoiding discomfort/suffering (dukkha), and orient your actions based on that understanding.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#102

Post by throw_pm23 »

wodenokoto wrote: post #33
lynx23 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who thinks meditation with an app is super hilariously weird? Its hard to explain without falling for too much cynism, but... the topic is mindfulness, not "have my phone tell me what to do next". If you are unable to mediate without the help of an app, start here, instead of pretending you are meditating just because some app tells you every step along the way.

Is guided meditation on cassette tape also hilariously weird? Or what about in-person guided meditation?

Yes for the first, less so for the second.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#103

Post by throw_pm23 »

astrange wrote: post #64
lynx23 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who thinks meditation with an app is super hilariously weird? Its hard to explain without falling for too much cynism, but... the topic is mindfulness, not "have my phone tell me what to do next". If you are unable to mediate without the help of an app, start here, instead of pretending you are meditating just because some app tells you every step along the way.

It's not any weirder than any other exercise app. It keeps you on track and reminds you what you're supposed to do. (Which isn't exactly "just sit there." You can do it wrong.) You can even get an EEG reader for biofeedback meditation like Muse. Works well as long as you stay away from the Deepak Chopra stuff.

Exercise apps seem equally weird to me.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#104

Post by unsubstantiated »

TekMol wrote: post #4
miroljub wrote: post #2

Mindfulness meditation may reduce stress levels, but only temporary. Instead of focusing on the source of stress and trying to solve the underlying issues, it fights the symptoms. I don't say that it doesn't "work", but one should be aware of the limitation of mindfulness practices, and look at it just as one of the tools in a tool set to fight stress, not as a holy grail, like many of its proponents preach.

User counters 13000 word meta study by simply stating the opposite without giving any arguments, sources or studies. Is there a forum like Hacker News, but with no "talking out of your ass"? How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this? The thought "Is it a long term effect or just temporary?" is totally fine. But then just posting out of your ass does not help anyobody. A quick search for "months" in…

>How could the mechanics of a forum be set up to achieve this?

Asking people to post their work and downvoting/flagging/banning them if they refuse.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#105

Post by yadingus »

lynx23 wrote: post #27
Knee_Pain wrote: post #18

If you want a free mindfulness app you should consider searching for the one developed by the US Department of Veteran Affairs on your platform's app store. It usually ranks very low on the list because not many people know about it and because all the other apps market themselves heavily. Unlike all the garbage apps which ask you for subscriptions and DLCs just to play 10 minutes of audio, every single thing is free…

Am I the only one who thinks meditation with an app is super hilariously weird? Its hard to explain without falling for too much cynism, but... the topic is mindfulness, not "have my phone tell me what to do next". If you are unable to mediate without the help of an app, start here, instead of pretending you are meditating just because some app tells you every step along the way.

I've done vipassana retreats where they play audio files from Goenka's instructions. You can do the same with a phone.

I've used analogue timers to determine when to get up from my session. Please explain the difference between an analogue timer and a digital one, for this purpose.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#106

Post by yadingus »

Knee_Pain wrote: post #17
toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

Breathing practices objectively have an effect on our body and nobody can counter this. Buddhist ideology on the other hand is up to debate and everyone is free to try it or believe it. Maybe in your experience meditation is enhanced by believing all that stuff, but that is your prerogative. I can do mindfulness and go to a psychologist instead of doing meditation and going to a temple because maybe that oriental stu…

The other practices also have an effect on your body and mind, you just don't bother verifying it for yourself because you want an external authority to do it for you first.

You don't need to buy into the esoteric teachings, or even the core belief of reincarnation. But you don't have to reject them either. Just inform yourself on the basics and keep them in mind. "If this bit was true, what would the world be like? How would my actions impact the world? How would they impact my future self?"

In the end the whole point is reducing suffering, and the longer you wait for someone else to verify one claim or another, the longer you're going to be bound to your habitual suffering.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#107

Post by yadingus »

scns wrote: post #78
toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

There are the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama and there is the religion Buddhism created by his followers. He said: This is my truth, see for yourself if it is true for you too. This is the reason i take him seriously, in contrast to the monotheistic myths that all claim to have the only truth. > Understanding emptiness The other points are valid to me, this one belongs in the realm of metaphysics for me. Buddha said…

> Understanding emptiness

> The other points are valid to me, this one belongs in the realm of metaphysics for me.

Isn't this something both the Buddha and modern science agree on? Matter if comprised of mostly empty space. It's physics, no meta.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#108

Post by yadingus »

varispeed wrote: post #19
toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

> Living & acting out of compassion (boddhicitta): if your main focus is other not yourself, a huge relief of worries is gone, and meaning arises naturally. Of course here articial part. You'll easily become a victim of people who exploit "caretakers". You'll become an unpaid servant. People need to look after themselves first.

The first step in looking after yourself is getting to know your own mind.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#109

Post by yadingus »

varispeed wrote: post #85
hummusandsushi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an overly paranoid response to someone suggesting to have compassion for others as a form of self-care. The idea is that worrying exessively about yourself can be harmful in itself, not "allow yourself to be exploited".

It's more in the vein of advice you get on the plane - when oxygen masks drop you need to put the mask first before putting another over the face of someone you care for.

In that analogy, compassion and love are the oxygen. If you hold on to anger and defensiveness in order to "fend for yourself" it's like failing to put on your oxygen mask because you hold on to your valuables, thinking someone is going to steal them in the middle of a plane crash.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#110

Post by yadingus »

miroljub wrote: post #2

Mindfulness meditation may reduce stress levels, but only temporary. Instead of focusing on the source of stress and trying to solve the underlying issues, it fights the symptoms. I don't say that it doesn't "work", but one should be aware of the limitation of mindfulness practices, and look at it just as one of the tools in a tool set to fight stress, not as a holy grail, like many of its proponents preach.

The real source of stress is the mind.
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