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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#101

Post by wredue »

bilsbie wrote: post #77

It’s a controversial opinion but I really believe EV’s need 500 miles of range to truly compete with ICE vehicles. Think: batteries not fully charging or depleting for longevity concerns. Having to stop at chargers before range is out due to there not being another one coming up, extra headwinds, extra heat or AC, simply ending up at a broken or crowded charger and needing it to a different one, pulling a load, etc,…

Most people never leave their city.

For those of us who do, the small number that do road trips can easily get by with one ICE and one EV.

Most people’s EV need to get to the grocery store or to work and back.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#102

Post by sdfghswe »

wredue wrote: post #70

>Inside the Nevada team’s office, some employees celebrated canceling service appointments by putting their phones on mute and striking a metal xylophone, triggering applause from coworkers who sometimes stood on desks. It’s weird how this sentence was probably supposed to surprise the reader, but I really just reflected on how the fans conduct themselves regularly and thought “yup, sounds about on par”.

> I really just reflected on how the fans conduct themselves regularly

Reminds me of that youtube video (by a fan) almost having an accident on autopilot and his first reaction was "we're gonna have to cut that out".

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#103

Post by cowsandmilk »

tekla wrote: post #62
HWR_14 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me. Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.

How does the Tesla know I'm going on a trip? Are you implying its strange that the Tesla can calculate a more accurate range estimate when you literally tell it where you want to go to its computer which can use map data to calculate energy usage, versus you just driving around in circles in a arbitrary area and the computer only can assume based on EPA average usage?

> computer only can assume based on average usage

It is clear from the discussion that it isn’t basing it on that at all. Would be overjoyed if it was based on average efficiency for the last 50 miles I drove. It isn’t.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#104

Post by clintonb »

tekla wrote: post #75
ke88y wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only makes sense if there's strong correlation between the first 50% of a charge and the second 50% of a charge, but NOT an equally strong correlation between the previous charge cycle and the current charge cycle. That can be the case (eg on road trips) but usually isn't. Why not just always give the more precise estimates?

How does the car know what conditions its going to be driving in? I don't believe Elon has installed a time machine yet into a Tesla.

Navigation data may include altitude changes. Weather data along the route gives you temperature. The driver’s history tells you how likely they are to speed versus drive the speed limit.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#105

Post by londons_explore »

jncfhnb wrote: post #81
londons_explore wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions. The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. Driving style easily has a 50% impact on range between "drives 50 mph slipstreaming behind a truck" and "drives 90 mph and brakes aggressively at every corner".

When you say “learns” is it actually factoring in the route or is it just using the historical average miles per… what, kWh, and multiplying it across the distance

Haven't seen the code, so I don't know how it works. It certainly looks at the route though, because different destinations both 100 miles away give different estimated power usages.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#106

Post by speedgoose »

guax wrote: post #61
speedgoose wrote: post #44

> “We’re looking at the range, and you literally see the number decrease in front of your eyes,” he said of his dashboard range meter. Well, I’m not sure what the range meter is supposed to do? Freeze when an eye tracker detects the driver looks at it? Or maybe he was idling the car in cold weather. Even without the heater running, the battery cools down and that can reduce the range. Electric vehicles aren’t perfect…

Thats the crux of the complaint tho, if the number requires education the number should not be used without context and something more realistic should be used. If on average the car does 250 miles it should not be advertised as 400. Either a range or a disclaimer should be present. I think the "number decreasing" complaint seems to be related to the fact that you would drive 10 miles and lose 30 on the dash. The art…

The car is probably warm by the time it goes below 50%.

Such number is a difficult problem. The Tesla number doesn’t represent anything meaningful. I personally have the state of charge set in % and not distance.

I used to have a BMW that was guessing the range based on the last driving conditions. It was very bad too. Driving downhill in a warm day was producing big range numbers the next day. Driving uphill in a snow storm would make you want to have the car checked for battery degradation.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#107

Post by [deleted] »

ke88y wrote: post #32
TheAlchemist wrote: post #5

That's a pretty damning article and it looks like there are more and more of those coming. Tesla still somehow benefits from its innovators / clean company reputation, but at this pace it won't be long before agencies start to act on what's become much more than just 'optimistic marketing'.

I think that reputation already died in the last 2-3 years. It's now pretty common in my circle to hear people say they'll pay a premium to not own a Tesla. Primarily because of lots of bad experiences with build quality/repairs, but also because there are now lots of high quality alternatives. Namely Rivian and Lucid, but also the legacy automakers (two friends bought mach-es recently and there's a smattering of F-1…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#108

Post by tekla »

wredue wrote: post #94
tekla wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the car know what conditions its going to be driving in? I don't believe Elon has installed a time machine yet into a Tesla.

Er? Perhaps the car could make use of sensors that every ice and ev vehicle has had installed for decades, along with previous driving habits?

Yes the sensors on the car are now time machines that can figure out what the cars future conditions are going to be.

Why would you want your previous driving habits to affect the base level estimation? Your driving today could be vastly different, and then you would be here complaining about how wrong it was and the range anxiety you got when the car vastly underestimated your range because it assumed you were in 40 mph traffic when today you were late and speeding 80 mpg down the highway.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#109

Post by 0xfae »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #78
londons_explore wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions. The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. Driving style easily has a 50% impact on range between "drives 50 mph slipstreaming behind a truck" and "drives 90 mph and brakes aggressively at every corner".

I thought braking aggressively increases range.

What? How did you arrive at that conclusion. Even if the laws of thermodynamics and entropy took a holiday, and you recovered 100% of the energy when you brake, at best you would break even and not hurt your range (vs not braking aggressively).

Regen breaking increases range over no regen braking, but braking aggressively will always be worse than not braking aggressively.

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