I have this problem with cheap disposable vapes I get from corner stores. Elfbar did seem to add a resistor at some point, though, which is great :)
[deleted]
Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
101–110 of 122 posts
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
> doing that sort of thing is almost certainly a waste of time. A waste of time for both parties, because the author is wrong. As Wikipedia helpfully points out: "The designation C refers only to the connector's physical configuration or form factor and should not be confused with the connector's specific capabilities" From the write up it looks like he was able to get it working with the minimum 3A required by the c…
Hi, author here. The quote you mentioned from Wikipedia indeed says that devices don't have to implement all the capabilities of the connector. However, further down, it says the following: > USB-C devices may optionally provide or consume bus power currents of 1.5 A and 3.0 A (at 5 V) in addition to baseline bus power provision; power sources can either advertise increased USB current through the configuration chann…
> > However, to connect a USB 2.0/1.1 device to a USB-C host, use of Rd[57] on the CC pins is required, as the source (host) will not supply VBUS until a connection is detected through the CC pins.
Yup. You are referring to the USB 2.0 spec there, not the USB-C spec. If you follow the citation it in turn seems to be citing (not explicitly) the USB-PD spec.
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, author here. The quote you mentioned from Wikipedia indeed says that devices don't have to implement all the capabilities of the connector. However, further down, it says the following: > USB-C devices may optionally provide or consume bus power currents of 1.5 A and 3.0 A (at 5 V) in addition to baseline bus power provision; power sources can either advertise increased USB current through the configuration chann…
> > However, to connect a USB 2.0/1.1 device to a USB-C host, use of Rd[57] on the CC pins is required, as the source (host) will not supply VBUS until a connection is detected through the CC pins. Yup. You are referring to the USB 2.0 spec there, not the USB-C spec. If you follow the citation it in turn seems to be citing (not explicitly) the USB-PD spec.
It's a remote that charges via the USB-C port. If it doesn't follow USB 2.0 spec, or the USB-PD spec, or any spec associated with the type-C port, how is it supposed to get power from the host device/charger?
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#104Is there a royalty on the chipset to do it better than resistor pullups? The article implies its a relatively high BoM cost to have the negotiation. I can see its pinouts, board design, test but the actual chip.. surely is still down in the 0.0001c range? or is this one "pay the cartel" expensive?
The chip is very expensive, sadly. If it were just a matter of the cartel, that would be one thing (and would have Shenzhen-made workarounds). No, the USB lunatics made USB-PD one of the most insane specifications you'll ever find, so that no one can implement it correctly period. (Seriously, it's actually the description of the actual behavior of an old TI part, bugs and all, turned into a spec. It's horrid . It's t…
As someone who has read the PD spec and agrees with your assessment- I’m curious what that chip is?
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#105For the curious, there's a hierarchy defined by the USB-C cable spec. Table 4-17 Precedence of power source usage https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/USB%20Type-C%20Spec%... - Baseline: it behaves like a USB cable from 1996. Sync gets 100mA@5V (USB2) or 150mA@5V (USB3), and then as part of USB enumeration you can get up to 500mA@5V (USB2) or 900/1500mA@5V (USB3 single/dual lane) depending on what happens during U…
Also worth noting this is super common on devices designed to have a micro USB-B port, which then are later switched over to USB-C; they just hook up the pins from USB-B and don't bother with the new pins from USB-C. The spec is specifically designed to allow this, because USB has backwards compatibility as a core tenant (i.e. you can plug in your USB keyboard from 1996 and it will probably still work). Also a USB-C…
Minor nits: _sink_ instead of sync in this sense, and _tenet_ instead of tenant.
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#106(throwaway account for fear of retribution) Eh, I don't know... The author seems to assume the USB-IF is a good thing. Having gone through the despicable $4,000 shakedown that is required to get a vendor id from the USB-IF, and implemented multiple devices against the outrages that are the specs, I dream about the remote possibility of living in a post-USB world someday. Yes, I was around in the bad old days before U…
Author here; I don't think my blog post is in support of the USB-IF (unless I missed a sentence I wrote somewhere that insinuates otherwise...) I just think selling defective products that don't charge with certain cables shouldn't be allowed.
Thanks for clarifying.
In support of your point, this sentence, "I mean, the USB-C spec is really long, and probably very complicated thanks to the USB-IF committee" makes me think we probably agree more than disagree about the USB-IF.
I was probably reacting more to my own bitter experience with USB-C/3.xyz-it-even-has-electrolytes version(s).
It was relatively trivial to stand up a USB 2.x system.
USB 3.x with Type C connectors? Orders of magnitude more challenging throughout the stack. Even 99% of the Type-C connector hardware is bullshit.
I guess I'm empathizing with the opposite view that your title presents.
I truly don't care about _USB-C conformity_.
That said, I'd be embarrassed if my product that had a USB-C connector did not (at least slow) charge with a standard Type-C cable.
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
The required resistors are literally a tenth of a penny each ($0.0011/ea) on DigiKey[0], probably cheaper elsewhere. You need two of them. Two tenths of a single penny. Exway is charging between $350 and $1650 for their skateboards, from what I can see on their website. I highly doubt this was done for cost reasons, even including the additional assembly costs, which for surface mount resistors would be very low. Thi…
materials costs are not the only consideration. they have to arrange for a secure supply, retooling, QC checking etc. to do it properly. I imagine they got the cheapest engineer to make a functioning product. Changing their whole production line for a $0.001 component is hardly worth their time in this product segment, however debatable the ethics or PR of it is.
You apparently have no idea how electronics are manufactured.
There is no such thing as "changing the whole production line".
Also, the marginal value the additional components provide exceed their costs by such a wide margin. The ROI is easily in the 10000%.
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a real manufacturer like monoprice Monoprice does not manufacture anything. Also, a lot of the apple USB-C cables are power only.
They do actually design/spec the stuff they sell though, they're not just some random reseller slapping branding on whatever product is cheapest on AliBaba this week.
That’s the key. You can find perfectly capable cables on alibaba but it’s hard. Let monoprice do the work for you.
Amazon basics might work, but I trust monoprice more.
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was kind of resigned for everything to be awful forever. It felt like 60% of the devices I bought had this problem. Makes things like charging these Tribit Surf speakers I otherwise love quite a pain. But I've purchased around a dozen pretty cheap devices with USB-C in the past year & much to my surprise each one has properly resistor terminated CC pins & just works. I was kind of begging for a specific C-C cable t…
It’s so weird. I have what I would categorize as “cheap crap” that works great. Like an IR thermometer for surfaces or an electric ‘compressed air’ duster (powerful fan with a small nozzle and a battery). Both work perfectly on proper USB-C and charge. They were both $15 or less. The kind of device where every cent on the BoM may matter. The devices in my original comment? Hundreds of dollars each. They have to go th…
It’s not about the price of two resistors, it’s just incompetence when updating the design from micro-usb to usb-c.
Re: Exway doesn't care about USB-C conformity
#110Is there a royalty on the chipset to do it better than resistor pullups? The article implies its a relatively high BoM cost to have the negotiation. I can see its pinouts, board design, test but the actual chip.. surely is still down in the 0.0001c range? or is this one "pay the cartel" expensive?
The chip lets you draw more than the minimum USB-A standard power. And that’s what, 500mA?
Without such a chip you can use resistors to configure up to 5V, 3A.