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Rethinking Window Management

blogs.gnome.org

101–110 of 272 posts

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#101

Since there's going to be a lot of tiling WM users looking: what's the best way to get tiling WM and all the convenience of a "full blown WM like Gnome": things like Network Manager applet, bluetooth control, audio etc. all just few clicks away.

At least KDE (not sure about other DEs but I'd assume most except GNOME) supports EWMH, which lets its widgets control with any compliant window manager. Xmonad has a wiki page on this.[0]

One gotcha is that many full DEs use compositing window managers, which tilers usually don't. You can get around this by running a standalone compositor (such as picom).

[0]: https://wiki.haskell.org/Xmonad/Using_xmonad_in_KDE

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#102
post #30
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows. So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. (Also, note that you can hold the Option key and click on the green plus in the upper-left corner you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS call…

> you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". No, no you won't. Because 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization. It means something like 'make this window as big as the current contents it has open for viewing in each dimension, unless that's too big (and then just maximize it in that direction)'. Additionally it's just window resizing, not a window state . Which means that when yo…

> 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization

Interesting, I tried a few windows that I don't normally "zoom" and you are right. I suppose prior to this I only ever attempted to perform this action on browser/document/messaging/media windows that are able to be fully maximized.

> there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces

I wondered how I never noticed this, and it looks like I had Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion enabled.

> you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window

Agreed, I found it handy the first time I discovered I could move a floating window over a maximized window in Windows, but I've also noticed that I let my windows become a lot more disorganized when I'm using Windows. I'm not saying they're related, it may be that I just don't have enough Windows experience, but I do find that I end up keeping my workspace a bit tidier on macOS or a tiling WM.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#103
post #37
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows. So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. (Also, note that you can hold the Option key and click on the green plus in the upper-left corner you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS call…

I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows that's not the problem (for me at least). i have both workspaces and multiple maximized windows on some of those workspaces. each workspace is dedicated to a task. all windows related to that task, maximized or not, are together on one workspace. pushing maximized windows to the…

That makes sense to me. If you have a specific use for each workspace then I see how reordering them willy-nilly would be problematic and break muscle memory.

I have a multi-monitor setup and I often find myself using particular monitors for particular applications. I would be annoyed if the operating system decided to start reorganizing them.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#104
I actually like the ideas they have here! It feels inspired by the best parts of macOS, Windows, and tiling window managers, while actually being pretty novel IMO.

However, I actually like the "overlapping sheets on a desktop" metaphor because it's still pretty "task" based. Their example is a little contrived, having a lot of small unrelated windows smushed into the middle of the screen is rare I think. At least for me. A more common example I think might be:

You're in a web browser full screen, and then you need to drag and drop a file into a site, so you open finder/explorer. That appears overtop of the browser. Then maybe you realize you want to remove some metadata from the file you need to upload, so you go into that file's preferences pane, which is a whole new "sheet" on your desktop.

At any point, you can dig up the browser, since it still occupies a lot of the screen. Effectively it's a branching undo tree. Since you connect all of these apps together manually (opening, clicking, dragging, sharing in MacOS), you're free to go and fiddle with things that are going to be accepting something else from another window.

The thing I think is missing from that metaphor is that it's really hard to get back to what you were doing if you break that undo tree. You click the browser, but now all of your other windows are behind, and the whole stack won't come back at once.

If windows recovered in the stack they were opened in when you focus them, (in my contrived example, you refocus the file preferences window, OR maybe there's some gesture/keycombo to return to the last focus state) I think that'd make a pretty measurable effect on my window organization annoyances.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#105
I'd love to chat with the gnome guys. They miss so much and I'm not sure why.

1) The WM must remember where my windows were and put them back when reopened. Never mind how X apps took on this responsibility, under Wayland the app should not know its context. It's also not right to put the burden on every app when it could be in the WM to provide consistency and unburden all the other devs.

2) I use a 55" screen where the "desktop" metaphor is apt. Workspaces are for small screens with maximized windows, which don't really need other layout methods anyway.

3) I have space for the launcher to be ever present. I also don't want my windows to shrink and move around when I do invoke that panel. That's so jarring and completely unneeded.

I do like the idea they mention of a maximum sensible size for an app. That could be useful regardless of all the other stuff.

I feel like tabs on browsers were invented because no desktop environment or GUI toolkit ever came up with a decent solution for multiple instances/documents. This has improved but I suspect there is more that could be done.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#106
post #36

I like PaperWM[1] a lot. 1. https://github.com/paperwm/PaperWM

It isn't perfect, but it does bring tiling window management to Gnome. The killer feature for me is that it remembers which workspace windows are on when external monitors are connected and disconnected.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#108
post #62
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Xresources and friends make sense now Wayland is finally usable for many folks? Maybe having some sort of environment agnostic config would be good - even with Wayland - but I don’t know that a suitable one exists today.

Wayland is not usable for me, I am on a BSD. So my answer is yes, Xresources makes sense for me :) Does Wayland even have a method to specifying canned Window Position ?

It does, kind of, statically you configure positions manually in the configuration file, or dynamically, you can use its API through a pipe to save positions and then restore positions.

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#109

Clearly I am a very simple person, and I don't get all these window management wars. Almost all my workflows either involve one maximised windows, two windows side by side, or occasionally one smaller windowed floating on top of another. Linux does that for me by default. You can get the float on top in Windows with some 3re party tools, although it isn't as nicely integrated. What is everyone doing that needs someth…

> What is everyone doing that needs something else? You omitted to explain what you do for a living. I write code for a living, and what you describe simply doesn't work for me given the many different things I need to look at and refer to in parallel (without having to perform a hard context switch such as moving to another workspace or un-maximizing a window) to be able to cobble together code that works.

Currently I work as a security architect. I have previously worked as a software developer, solution architect and systems administrator.

I do like having more than one screen available. Having three is ideal but I mostly just have two. But I just maximise a window on each screen, or have two windows on one of the screens. No advanced window management needed!

Re: Rethinking Window Management

#110
I appreciate someone looking at improving the status quo. However, I feel that there is no way something as opinionated like this will do what you actually want it to do in most cases.
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