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'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

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Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#101

Setting aside the national security question, more broadly it's pretty insane that the USA lets companies hide who owns/controls them. When you decide to hang out your shingle and profit at the expense of the general public, I would say the general public has a genuine right to know who you are. Reminds me of how Disney used aliases and codenames and shell companies and secretive ownership structures to buy up all th…

> When you decide to hang out your shingle and profit at the expense of the general public

Whoa whoa whoa, you can't just assume that profits come at the expense of the public! There are plenty of businesses that provide valuable goods and services for which I am happy to pay their profit margin, because the value they are providing to me is at least that amount. There are entire companies that spend their entire day coordinating shipments of food for me, including out-of-season fruit and fruits and vegetables unavailable in my location. There are companies that have invested in hideously expensive fabs and detailed technical knowledge to bring my inexpensive microchips that make my first computer look glacially slow. I happily pay Apple's profit margin because I get great hardware that looks elegant and has an operating system that is both Unix and doesn't require me to futz with it. The list goes on. This Marxist idea that companies are inherently exploitative is just incorrect and unhelpful. (That doesn't mean that everything is necessarily great, though, just that it does not take into account the other, very real side. It's not like a society built on companies = exploitative has ever worked in the real world.)

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic, insider trading would be just fine. For a market to function properly, information pertinent to traded value has to flow freely. The more you stifle that, the more rigged the market. Essentially, you sustain a monopoly that way. Of course, people in possession of such "insider information" believe themselves in the right to profit from it. But that perspective is obviously biased and reveals a fundamen…

Insider Trading is just fine.

No, it's really not.

If it were, shell games would be great as well? One like the other is simply fraud. You exploit others' lack of insight.

Doing so is unethical due to the implications it would have on a societal level if it were condoned. In particular, you likely imagine yourself regularly ending up on the better end of the bargain. You are wildly mistaken.

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#103

If this land is so precious to our national defense, why wasn't the land already owned by the federal government? Eminent domain is the uno reverse card here.

I don't think it's that simple: The US Air Force doesn't give a damn if some farmer buys up nearby land and uses it for farming . They do care if it's a foreign entity trying to use bulk land purchases to spy on or otherwise harm the United States or its people. The real problem here is the lack of transparency in ownership of corporations in the United States. If corporations weren't allowed to buy--then keep--other…

US Air force should have protocols to assume that any would be farmer buying land near a base is in fact a spy and operate accordingly. This sort of spycraft happens all the time, with intelligence agencies buying property next to each other in effort to eavesdrop.

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got to wonder if this is the PR component of a campaign to stop new energy development in the US. Another component is the political theater. Some municipalities are passing ordinances preventing Solar, for example, Eloy AZ would remove water rights to farmers who install solar on their property [1]. [1] https://www.pinalcentral.com/eloy_enterprise/commentary-tell...

An almost billion dollar PR campaign?

If you stand to make several multiples of that, even over decades, it seems like a decent investment.

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#105

I find it hard to believe if the Military was actually worried about this they would be going about it by having a House rep blast his mouth about it on local news.

You think the military controls every elected dope? What country do you think this is?

I don't, it was a sarcastic way of saying that this is probably just political noise making and not connected to a real missed security threat.

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#106

Setting aside the national security question, more broadly it's pretty insane that the USA lets companies hide who owns/controls them. When you decide to hang out your shingle and profit at the expense of the general public, I would say the general public has a genuine right to know who you are. Reminds me of how Disney used aliases and codenames and shell companies and secretive ownership structures to buy up all th…

I am also an advocate for transparency of ownership of companies, but that Disney example seems like more of a case against transparency than for it? Why should Disney be price gouged in that circumstance?

Why should Disney be price gouged in that circumstance?

Because they have money and they're trying to buy out the whole market. This reads like a billionaire sobbing about not having access to a senior discount at the thrift store.

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#107
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the increase in value of the sellers' land is wholly due to Disney's development of its land nearby, the sellers would simply be benefiting from a positive externality created by Disney. Thus it would be Disney being shortchanged if it was unable to capture the value of that externality. From an efficiency standpoint it is also preferable for the developer to capture the value, as naturally that increases incentiv…

Is it okay for the buyer to lie, but not okay for the seller to ask for the truth and adjust their price accordingly? This 'anything goes' market ideology is the same framework that leads us to deceptive subscription systems, anti patterns etc. Deceiving people to make a buck is shitty behavior.

I’m pretty shocked by the whole “profiting from a deceptive transaction is ok if the counterparty believes you” attitude here. I guess I expected more out of HN. I feel like I’d have to keep my hand on my wallet and my eyes over my shoulder if I ever visited any of these guys’ businesses.

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#108
post #11

This is an incredibly silly story. Everything about this ownership is in public records. Flannery Assoc. has been openly buying land in this are for over 5 years and have spent over a billion dollars and sued dozens of parties. Everyone knows what they are doing. They want to lease the land for energy infrastructure.

Not knowing anything about the situation, I simply cannot imagine that the most powerful state in the world does not know (or could not find out) who is buying up gigantic swathes of land within its territory. And a separate article about a lawsuit by the company even has a quote from the company explaining the use for the land:

> In the lawsuit, Flannery said land it has acquired is used for interstate commerce. The company said various energy and power entities had contracts or proposals to operate on Flannery-owned land in the region.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/california-landowne...

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#109
post #29

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ca/201905210181 says a guy named Thomas Mather was a director. https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/centralvalley/board_decisions... is some government application by Flannery that also has his name on it. Looks like this was covered in 2019: https://www.thereporter.com/2019/07/05/large-rural-land-purc... If Mather is not the true owner, it would take the government five seconds to f…

Lawyers aren't allowed to identify their clients if the identities of their clients are unknown. It's part of attorney-client privilege. Skadden has made use of in the past to hide their work for Putin affiliates. It's the reason that Skadden is the largest firm by revenue despite the lackluster quality of their work. (For an example of how bad Skadden is at the practice of law, see the clusterfuck that is the Twitte…

You’re confusing privilege with confidentiality.

From YKW, and squares with my very foggy recollection from PR.

Sure, I'll outline some key differences and similarities between privilege and confidentiality in the context of legal practice, specifically regarding client identification.

*Privilege*

1. Privilege is a legal concept that protects certain communications between an attorney and their client from being disclosed in legal proceedings.

2. It can be waived by the client, and there are certain exceptions to privilege, such as the crime-fraud exception.

3. However, the scope of privilege is generally limited to the content of communications themselves and doesn't typically extend to information about the client's identity, except in rare circumstances where the disclosure of the client's identity would reveal the substance of a confidential communication.

*Confidentiality*

1. Confidentiality, on the other hand, is a professional ethical obligation that requires lawyers to keep information related to the representation of a client secret, unless the client gives informed consent or the disclosure is impliedly authorized to carry out the representation.

2. This duty of confidentiality is broader than privilege and may cover information the lawyer learned from any source about the client, including the client's identity in many circumstances.

3. Unlike privilege, a breach of confidentiality can lead to professional sanctions for the lawyer, but it may not provide the same protections from disclosure in legal proceedings.

*Comparison and Contrast*

1. Both privilege and confidentiality are essential to ensure the free flow of information between a lawyer and their client, fostering trust in the lawyer-client relationship. They both serve to protect the client's interests.

2. However, privilege is a legal concept subject to legal exceptions and waivers, and it protects from forced disclosure in court, while confidentiality is a broader ethical duty that extends beyond the courtroom.

3. In most cases, the identity of a client isn't protected by privilege, but it may be covered by the duty of confidentiality depending on the context. If revealing the client's identity could harm the client or betray a confidence, then the lawyer has a duty to keep that information confidential.

This is a simplified summary and these concepts can get complicated in real-life situations. Always consider local and jurisdiction-specific rules and case law when dealing with privilege and confidentiality.

Re: 'Mystery company' buys land worth $800M near Travis AFB, raising concerns

#110
post #12

WSJ has a map (and more details) https://archive.is/PcfBc - "“Nobody can figure out who they are,” said Ronald Kott, mayor of Rio Vista, Calif., which is now largely surrounded by Flannery-owned land."

"Mayor of Rio Vista unaware of California business entities database, according to Mayor of Rio Vista"

Does that say what billionaire is funding the purchases? I'm not familiar with that DB but the info for who is actually behind the company (vs just an agent of it or a lawyer or whatever) seems non-obvious

(edit: for reference, this is what I see https://ibb.co/M2dDBZ1. The address is just a mail forwarding service.)

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