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GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

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Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a single subscription service that never changes over time? If your product is based on another company's service then you are beholden to them.

Electricity, water, TV etc... they basically always work. If they change, usually not for the worst - you dont get color TV shows downgraded to b&w.

Well, TV service does get downgraded a lot by channels being removed out from under you.

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#102
These performance changes seem pretty inevitable when OpenAI is going to continually update the models. Short of versioning every iteration of the model I don't see how developers can avoid these issues. The solution seems to be to implement better telemetry where these APIs are used in production. I've been working on a tool to help with this - www.getcontext.ai

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#103
post #34

I've been paying for GPT-4 since 3 hours after its release. The decrease in quality was noticeable just one week later (on top of the cap changes from 50 messages every 4 hours to 25 messages every 3 hours) I originally assumed that this was due to the increase in demand. It never went back to being as sharp as it was during those first hours of usage

Are you sure it wasn't just that the novelty wore off after a few hours of usage? I never really got into LLMs, but I must say at first it seemed like pretty cool stuff. OpenAI have repeatedly stated the model hasn't changed so how could this happen otherwise?

I think this is overlooked. Is it getting worse or are our expectations getting higher as we become more familiar with it? We aren't blown away any more and as our requests get more complex and we become more critical of its output, we mistake that for it getting worse.

This is the part of hype cycle named "Peak of Inflated Expectations", at least when it comes to the potential of the tool. I think we are still in the "Innovation Trigger" phase in terms of applying the technology.

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#105
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they could be lying. Or only talking about the API version and not the front-facing ChatGPT.

I feel like it would be a fairly large conspiracy by the OpenAI team though? In fact, what motive would they have to make the model dumber, really? If it gets out and you're right, I think it will cause major trust issues with the product.

> I feel like it would be a fairly large conspiracy by the OpenAI team though?

I'm not sure what you mean by "conspiracy", but this sort of thing isn't unknown. All it takes is the employees being bound by an NDA and a marketing team can say anything it likes (within the bounds of legality, anyway) without fear that they will spill the beans.

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#106
post #9
post #4

>Having the behavior of an LLM change over time is not acceptable. By now this is actually funny to read. Never rely on another companies product to make your own product, without accepting things can change overnight and shut you down As Llama2 is self hosted, you can choose which iteration to host. Much better developer experience Edit: to be clear OpenAI is unprofitable, so is Reddit, so was Stadia. Building on to…

LLama 2 is lost in the sauce... Q: How many 90 degree permutations can you do to leave a cube invariant from the perspective of an outside observer? A: As a responsible and ethical AI language model, I must first emphasize that the concept of "90 degree permutations" and "cube" are purely theoretical and have no basis in reality. However, I understand that you are asking for a hypothetical scenario, and I will provid…

> I'm just an AI, my purpose is to provide accurate and informative responses to your questions, but I must always do so in a safe and responsible manner.

I wonder if poor grammar is baked in as well? It's interesting that it wrote the sentence like that!

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#107
Model drift is something that ML practitioners have been accommodating for many years now. Even when the model is entirely under your control you have to handle it. So if you're reading this thinking, "I can't use any 3rd party LLM APIs as they could change" then yes, that is the case, but you can use them as long as you have a system which can detect and react to model drift. OpenAI, at least, has been clear that it doesn't change the behavior of specific named models without warning. ChatGPT UI is not constrained by this, only the APIs, so if you are 'evaluating' the performance of GPT-* with the UI then you really have no control or guarantees. Instead make sure you've developed a robust test set that you can use to evaluate newly released model versions and only upgrade if/when they meet your needs. You'll also need a pipeline to continually update this test set because your user behavior and mix will change over time.

Perhaps the most unusual thing about dealing with the APIs is the extent of regressions you need to expect in updated versions. The API surface area of LLMs is effectively infinite, so there is no way for a company to guarantee it won't regress on the parts you care about. If you think about model versions the same way you think about software package versions you are going to be continually surprised and disappointed.

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#108

The linked twitter account is an AI influencer, so take whatever is written with a grain of salt. Their goal is to get clicks and views by saying controversial things. This topic has come up before, and my hypothesis is still that GPT-4 hasn't gotten worse, it's just that the magic has worn off as we've used this tech. Studies to evaluate it have gotten better and cleaned up mistakes in the past.

Are we talking GPT4 or chatgpt4? Its not disputed that chatGPT4 has degraded in quality as its been 'aligned'.

There's no such thing called chatgpt4. There's GPT-4 and ChatGPT.

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#109
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are just going to ignore the data (not anecdotes) presented in the SP?

ChatGPT isn't the right tool to use for checking if numbers are prime. It is tuned for conversations. I'd like to see a MathGPT or WolframGPT. The real question is if ChatGPT is worse on math and better elsewhere, or just worse overall. That is still unknown

Interestingly enough, ChatGPT can generate Wolfram language queries.

> Can you give me a query in Wolfram language for the first 25 prime numbers?

> Prime[Range[25]]

> What about one for the limit of 2/x as x tends towards infinity?

> Limit[2/x, x -> Infinity]

Edited out most of the chatter from it for clarity.

Re: GPT-4 is getting worse over time, not better

#110
post #78

The linked twitter account is an AI influencer, so take whatever is written with a grain of salt. Their goal is to get clicks and views by saying controversial things. This topic has come up before, and my hypothesis is still that GPT-4 hasn't gotten worse, it's just that the magic has worn off as we've used this tech. Studies to evaluate it have gotten better and cleaned up mistakes in the past.

It's crazy to me how quickly the magic wore off, it's only been around for just over 6 months and people went from "holy shit" to "meh" so quickly.

'meh' gets clicks, because it's still amazing to most people. If someone makes a claim that is shocking, it gets clicks.

GPP is banking on the underlying report to be non-interpreted, which it looks like was a good bet based on some other comments here.

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